World War 2 Talk - View Single Post - Irish Guards, 3 Bn. War Diary, June 1944 -

dbf · 11-10-2008, 11:45 AM

Hi Kennedi,

Just to clarify what Owen and I have been talking about in 2 different ways.
Your great grandfather probably was in the 1st battalion, probably not with them in North Africa or in Italy as he is in a photo which shows him being in a different Guards brigade and because he doesn‘t have these campaign medals.

What is likely is that as he has a Defence Medal, he was in different duties in Britain with the 1st Battalion and then at some stage, probably when the 3rd Battalion was officially formed in 1943 he was transferred to that battalion. I know for instance that instructors ended up in the 3rd Battalion. If you think about it, they needed men who were experienced and had been in the Guards for a longer time as well as new recruits.

The 3rd was originally known as the Training Battalion and used to bring up recruits to standard ready to reinforce the 1st and 2nd Battalions. It was not meant to be sent out to campaigns as a battalion in itself. The 1st Battalion suffered many losses in Italy, men were killed, injured or taken prisoner, and the order was given to go ahead and form the 3rd Battalion from the Training Battalion to prepare for the invasion of France. So it seems that this was probably when your Great grandfather ended up with them. They still needed more men for even by the end of June 1944 when they reached France a couple of weeks after D-Day, they were still not up to full strength. Only 3 Companys were available when 4 was required. So they ‘borrowed’ a Company from the Scots Guards up until the end of August 1944.

By the way, if Sidney was with the Carrier platoon in 3rd Battalion then, he would have sailed on the Liberty ship “Samphill” with the tanks of the 2nd Armoured Battalion. While they were embarking they witnessed the first V1 rockets, doodlebugs, coming over the Channel before bombing London. The sad news was received before they sailed that The Guards Chapel had been hit. Over 100 people were killed when attending a service, but it was not reported in the news as this would have been bad for morale. Sailing was delayed by a terrible storm and the Mulberry harbour at Arromanches where they were to land, was damaged in it. Eventually the carrier platoon would have reached Bayeux on 25/26 June. They took part in Operation Goodwood before Operation Market Garden and then the push into Germany the following year when Sidney was killed.

My father was a Bren Gunner in the 3rd Battalion and his friend from his training squad ended up in the Carrier Platoon. I don’t see Dad's friend in the photo either, but his squad photo is on this thread. He died on 21st September bringing up ammunition to the infantry and tanks fighting at the front. This was one of the roles they carried out and obviously was a dangerous one. To give you an illustration of how many men were injured or killed, a section should have had 10 men. By the time my Dad was in Holland, he and his best mate were all that was left of the original section that landed in Arromanches.

I am sorry a lot of this is guess work, as really the best place to find out the most about Sidney is from his service records, which would show when he enlisted where he trained and served and when he was transferred. His story would be an interesting one indeed if you had all this information and could pin point dates.

Diane

11-10-2008, 11:45 AM	#96 (permalink)
dbf Very Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Co Down, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,130	Hi Kennedi, Just to clarify what Owen and I have been talking about in 2 different ways. Your great grandfather probably was in the 1st battalion, probably not with them in North Africa or in Italy as he is in a photo which shows him being in a different Guards brigade and because he doesn‘t have these campaign medals. What is likely is that as he has a Defence Medal, he was in different duties in Britain with the 1st Battalion and then at some stage, probably when the 3rd Battalion was officially formed in 1943 he was transferred to that battalion. I know for instance that instructors ended up in the 3rd Battalion. If you think about it, they needed men who were experienced and had been in the Guards for a longer time as well as new recruits. The 3rd was originally known as the Training Battalion and used to bring up recruits to standard ready to reinforce the 1st and 2nd Battalions. It was not meant to be sent out to campaigns as a battalion in itself. The 1st Battalion suffered many losses in Italy, men were killed, injured or taken prisoner, and the order was given to go ahead and form the 3rd Battalion from the Training Battalion to prepare for the invasion of France. So it seems that this was probably when your Great grandfather ended up with them. They still needed more men for even by the end of June 1944 when they reached France a couple of weeks after D-Day, they were still not up to full strength. Only 3 Companys were available when 4 was required. So they ‘borrowed’ a Company from the Scots Guards up until the end of August 1944. By the way, if Sidney was with the Carrier platoon in 3rd Battalion then, he would have sailed on the Liberty ship “Samphill” with the tanks of the 2nd Armoured Battalion. While they were embarking they witnessed the first V1 rockets, doodlebugs, coming over the Channel before bombing London. The sad news was received before they sailed that The Guards Chapel had been hit. Over 100 people were killed when attending a service, but it was not reported in the news as this would have been bad for morale. Sailing was delayed by a terrible storm and the Mulberry harbour at Arromanches where they were to land, was damaged in it. Eventually the carrier platoon would have reached Bayeux on 25/26 June. They took part in Operation Goodwood before Operation Market Garden and then the push into Germany the following year when Sidney was killed. My father was a Bren Gunner in the 3rd Battalion and his friend from his training squad ended up in the Carrier Platoon. I don’t see Dad's friend in the photo either, but his squad photo is on this thread. He died on 21st September bringing up ammunition to the infantry and tanks fighting at the front. This was one of the roles they carried out and obviously was a dangerous one. To give you an illustration of how many men were injured or killed, a section should have had 10 men. By the time my Dad was in Holland, he and his best mate were all that was left of the original section that landed in Arromanches. I am sorry a lot of this is guess work, as really the best place to find out the most about Sidney is from his service records, which would show when he enlisted where he trained and served and when he was transferred. His story would be an interesting one indeed if you had all this information and could pin point dates. Diane Last edited by dbf; 11-10-2008 at 11:53 AM.