2nd Btn The Cheshire Regiment

2nd ches · 23-09-2007, 05:44 PM

2nd Battalion The Cheshire Regiment was a Medium Machine Gun(Vickers)Btn.
They served in the following locations:

Pre WW2
1933 – 1935 Malta
1935 – 1936 England
1936 = 1938 Palestine
1938 – 1939 England

WW2
1939 – 1940 British Expeditionary Force, (France and Belgium)
1940 – 1941 England
1941 – 1943 8th Army Middle East ( Egypt, Libya and Tunisia)
1943 - 1943 8th Army Sicily
1944 - 1944 21st Army Group NW Europe (France, Belgium and Holand)

The Vickers .303 Machine Gun Battalion.
"The Machine Gunner is a special type of soldier that has,
Unusual strength of body and suppleness of muscles; the keen eye and cunning hand; speed of foot, steel nerves, a stout heart - these are the physical requirements. The machine gunner must be possessed, also, of intelligence above the average: his mind must be swift as a bullet in flight: he must be resourceful, audacious, possessed of initiative, capable of endurance to the uttermost." [1]

Perhaps the most potent image of World War One is that of young soldiers emerging from their trenches and advancing across no-man's land, only to be cut down by raking volleys of heavy machine gun fire. The weapons which proved so murderous in the first war were to see combat again in the second. The tactics of Infantry advance during World War Two bear a remarkable similarity to World War One. Despite the embracing of all arms combat and massive pre-emptory barrages, time and again men were thrown against machine gun posts with abandon and suffered cruelly for it. The perceived fluidity of movement can, I think at least, often disguise the fact some actions would not have been out of place in 1916.
The Vickers first entered British Army service at the end of 1912, and remained in service until the late 1960s. The firing crew consisted of commander, gunner and loader. Transportation was initially by 15 cwt truck, but as shortages eased the Universal Carrier took on the role. This had the added advantage that the gun could be mounted and fired from the vehicle if required.
In the pre-war period it had been planned that each Infantry Brigade would be supported by a Machine Gun Battalion. In the event however, Machine Gun Battalions were designated Corps Troops, and were allotted on the much reduced scale of one Battalion per Division.[2]
At the outbreak of war the Battalion was organized thus
Machine-Gun Battalion: Headquarters, headquarters company and four machine-gun companies, each armed with twelve machine-guns. These were the Vickers ·303, firing belt ammunition. In addition to these forty-eight machine guns the battalion had, as personal weapons, 175 pistols, 559 rifles and eighteen light machine guns. The full strength was about 740.[3]
[1]Hutchinson, Lt. Col. G.S. (1937). Machine Guns. Their History and Tactical Employment.
[2] http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/heavymachineguns/heavy_machine_guns.htm
[3] http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-NWE-Flanders/UK-NWE-Flanders-I.html

If you like me, think a Machine Gun is something to be plonked onto the ground pull the trigger and swing it from side to side! then this short story in two parts will change your mind.
Part 1 The Emma Gees, Part 1
part 2 The Emma Gees, Part 2

Excellent site on the Vickers The Vickers Machine Gun

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My Grandfather served with them from 12/10/1933 to 25/09/1944 when he transfered to the Middlesex Regiment(also a machine gun regiment).


I would be grateful for any information(how ever trivial!) regarding the Battalion, Regiment(and the other Machine Gun Regiments), and the Vickers Machine Gun.




As I proceed with my research, I will regularly post information on the Battalion.


Thanks Tony.













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von Poop · 23-09-2007, 06:09 PM

Welcome Tony,
You may well have seen these but this Gent's building an excellent site on the gun. The 1951 Vickers Manual can mostly be found here:
1951_Manual_Vickers_gun.
It's a work in progress but the chap's also scanning in a wide selection of other Vickers related literature:
Vickers_Handbooks_&_Manuals.

Main site:
The Vickers Machine Gun

Cheers, (& Good luck)
Adam

Paul Reed · 23-09-2007, 08:55 PM

Do you have a copy of their War Diary, Tony?

2nd ches · 23-09-2007, 09:25 PM

No, i have only just started researching, and i have been trawling the net.
I have been in touch with the regimental museum and I will do some research there.
Unfortunatly my funds are short, so i want to try and get as much information online and from the Libary before I start spending on books etc. But iam hoping that this thread can become a good source for reference material, iam planning to put links to the material that i have come across and hopefully others will.
Is the war Diary online?

2nd ches · 24-09-2007, 04:00 PM

Thanks Von Poop, yes it`s an excellent site

Tony

Paul Reed · 24-09-2007, 09:07 PM

No, War Diary is not online. I will drop you a mail about it when I am back from Belgium later this week.

Owen · 24-09-2007, 10:14 PM

Which Bn of the Middlesex did he join?

2nd ches · 25-09-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen D

Which Bn of the Middlesex did he join?

At the moment i dont know, but i have sent off for his service records. So i will have more details then.

Thanks Tony

Richard Fisher · 30-03-2008, 07:57 PM

Hi there,

Firstly, many thanks for the kind comments regarding my website (The Vickers Machine Gun).

Should it be of use, I have a copy of the, rather elusive, regimental history and would be happy to look up dates or references should they be of interest.

Regards

Richard

23-09-2007, 05:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
2nd ches Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bootle,Liverpool,England Posts: 30	2nd Btn The Cheshire Regiment 2nd Battalion The Cheshire Regiment was a Medium Machine Gun(Vickers)Btn. They served in the following locations: Pre WW2 1933 – 1935 Malta 1935 – 1936 England 1936 = 1938 Palestine 1938 – 1939 England WW2 1939 – 1940 British Expeditionary Force, (France and Belgium) 1940 – 1941 England 1941 – 1943 8<SUP>th</SUP> Army Middle East ( Egypt, Libya and Tunisia) 1943 - 1943 8th Army Sicily 1944 - 1944 21<SUP>st</SUP> Army Group NW Europe (France, Belgium and Holand) The Vickers .303 Machine Gun Battalion. "The Machine Gunner is a special type of soldier that has, Unusual strength of body and suppleness of muscles; the keen eye and cunning hand; speed of foot, steel nerves, a stout heart - these are the physical requirements. The machine gunner must be possessed, also, of intelligence above the average: his mind must be swift as a bullet in flight: he must be resourceful, audacious, possessed of initiative, capable of endurance to the uttermost." [1] Perhaps the most potent image of World War One is that of young soldiers emerging from their trenches and advancing across no-man's land, only to be cut down by raking volleys of heavy machine gun fire. The weapons which proved so murderous in the first war were to see combat again in the second. The tactics of Infantry advance during World War Two bear a remarkable similarity to World War One. Despite the embracing of all arms combat and massive pre-emptory barrages, time and again men were thrown against machine gun posts with abandon and suffered cruelly for it. The perceived fluidity of movement can, I think at least, often disguise the fact some actions would not have been out of place in 1916. The Vickers first entered British Army service at the end of 1912, and remained in service until the late 1960s. The firing crew consisted of commander, gunner and loader. Transportation was initially by 15 cwt truck, but as shortages eased the Universal Carrier took on the role. This had the added advantage that the gun could be mounted and fired from the vehicle if required. In the pre-war period it had been planned that each Infantry Brigade would be supported by a Machine Gun Battalion. In the event however, Machine Gun Battalions were designated Corps Troops, and were allotted on the much reduced scale of one Battalion per Division.[2] At the outbreak of war the Battalion was organized thus Machine-Gun Battalion: Headquarters, headquarters company and four machine-gun companies, each armed with twelve machine-guns. These were the Vickers ·303, firing belt ammunition. In addition to these forty-eight machine guns the battalion had, as personal weapons, 175 pistols, 559 rifles and eighteen light machine guns. The full strength was about 740.[3] [1]Hutchinson, Lt. Col. G.S. (1937). Machine Guns. Their History and Tactical Employment. [2] http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/heavymachineguns/heavy_machine_guns.htm [3] http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-NWE-Flanders/UK-NWE-Flanders-I.html If you like me, think a Machine Gun is something to be plonked onto the ground pull the trigger and swing it from side to side! then this short story in two parts will change your mind. Part 1 The Emma Gees, Part 1 part 2 The Emma Gees, Part 2 Excellent site on the Vickers The Vickers Machine Gun <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comUckfield<font face=" /><st1:country-region><ST1 <st1:country-region><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>My Grandfather served with them from 12/10/1933 to 25/09/1944 when he transfered to the Middlesex Regiment(also a machine gun regiment). <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I would be grateful for any information(how ever trivial!) regarding the Battalion, Regiment(and the other Machine Gun Regiments), and the Vickers Machine Gun. <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>As I proceed with my research, I will regularly post information on the Battalion. <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Thanks Tony. <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></st1:country-region></st1:country-region> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> Last edited by 2nd ches; 27-09-2007 at 08:41 PM. Reason: adding additional info

23-09-2007, 06:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
von Poop I Like Tanks. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perfidious Albion. Posts: 8,087	Welcome Tony, You may well have seen these but this Gent's building an excellent site on the gun. The 1951 Vickers Manual can mostly be found here: 1951_Manual_Vickers_gun. It's a work in progress but the chap's also scanning in a wide selection of other Vickers related literature: Vickers_Handbooks_&_Manuals. Main site: The Vickers Machine Gun Cheers, (& Good luck) Adam __________________ It's only the Internet.

23-09-2007, 08:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
Paul Reed Ubique Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK/France Posts: 3,133	Do you have a copy of their War Diary, Tony? __________________ The WW2 Society: Remembering those from Britain & The Commonwealth who served 1939-45 - http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_society.htm

24-09-2007, 09:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Paul Reed Ubique Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK/France Posts: 3,133	No, War Diary is not online. I will drop you a mail about it when I am back from Belgium later this week. __________________ The WW2 Society: Remembering those from Britain & The Commonwealth who served 1939-45 - http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_society.htm

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23-09-2007, 09:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
2nd ches Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bootle,Liverpool,England Posts: 30	No, i have only just started researching, and i have been trawling the net. I have been in touch with the regimental museum and I will do some research there. Unfortunatly my funds are short, so i want to try and get as much information online and from the Libary before I start spending on books etc. But iam hoping that this thread can become a good source for reference material, iam planning to put links to the material that i have come across and hopefully others will. Is the war Diary online?

24-09-2007, 04:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
2nd ches Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bootle,Liverpool,England Posts: 30	Thanks Von Poop, yes it`s an excellent site Tony

24-09-2007, 10:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 9,057	Which Bn of the Middlesex did he join?

30-03-2008, 07:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
Richard Fisher Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Swindon, UK Posts: 2	Hi there, Firstly, many thanks for the kind comments regarding my website (The Vickers Machine Gun). Should it be of use, I have a copy of the, rather elusive, regimental history and would be happy to look up dates or references should they be of interest. Regards Richard

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