British Armoured Brigade - Makeup

[Bart150]

I discovered that on Dday my father was on a destroyer escorting a convoy of 36 landing ships that carried 22nd Armoured Brigade from Southend to Gold beach.
22 Armoured Brigade consisted of:
2x tank battalions: 1 Royal Tank Regiment; 5 Royal Tank Regiment
1x cavalry battalion: 4 County of London Yeomanry
1x motor battalion: 1 The Rifle Brigade
Can anyone give me an idea of what such an armoured brigade would amount to: Roughly how many tanks? armoured cars? guns? other equipment? men? If possible, what models of tanks?
Thanks
Bart

[Owen]

22 Armd Bde part of 7th Armd Div, they had Cromwell tanks, will look up strengths later, bit busy at the moment.
A few photos at IWM if you search for
"22nd Armoured "

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbt...c/dbtwpcgi.exe

[Bart150]

Thanks, Owen.
I did find some photos of 22nd Armoured in Normandy there. There was one of a Crusader AA Mk III tank coming ashore, and another of a Crusader leading a line of Stuarts. Also two of Cromwells and one Sherman.
Anyway, what I'm really trying to establish is the logistical task of moving a whole armoured brigade by sea. The type of tank is relevant if it affects the number you can fit into an LST.
Bart

[Owen]

From George Forty's Handbook of the British Army,



In an Armoured Division in 1944 each of the three Armoured Regiments had 78 tanks of various types and 9 scout cars with 663 of all ranks.

Here's list of a Canadian Armoured Regiment in Sept 1944, it'll be similar to June for the British , substitue the images of Shermans for Cromwells.
http://www.armouredacorn.com/Orbats/...Sep44-reds.pdf

Here's a list of vehicles in a Canadian Motor Battalion.
it should be the same for 1st Bn The Rifle Brigade.

http://www.armouredacorn.com/Orbats/...an/MotBn44.pdf

[Bart150]

Thanks very much for the quick and useful info. I have a couple of questions:
1 The link defines the makeup of an armoured REGIMENT. I'm interested in the makeup of an armoured BRIGADE, which contained three armoured BATTALIONS. So is the regiment described in the link equivalent to a brigade or to a battalion?
2 Blimey! awful lot of non-tank vehicles. The motorized battalion in the link has about 270 different vehicles (I counted). Can that be right? Surely they'd need thousands of men to use them all!
Bart

[geoffrey hynes]

what has happend to the 11 armoured division I DO NOT SEE IT ON THE LIST

[Jaeger]

Thanks very much for the quick and useful info. I have a couple of questions:
1 The link defines the makeup of an armoured REGIMENT. I'm interested in the makeup of an armoured BRIGADE, which contained three armoured BATTALIONS. So is the regiment described in the link equivalent to a brigade or to a battalion?
2 Blimey! awful lot of non-tank vehicles. The motorized battalion in the link has about 270 different vehicles (I counted). Can that be right? Surely they'd need thousands of men to use them all!
Bart

Through the war the Armour went through many changes. All for the better IMO.

The Armd brigade consisted of 3 armd regiments (for the infantry that means battalions), a recce regiment and a motor battalion of infantry.

In Normandy a typical armoured formation had 246 medium tanks and 44 light tanks, however the Guards armoured and the 11th Black Bull had 247 mediums and 88 light tanks.

Regarding the divisional slice having a lot of men not in the sharp end, it was in many respects a positive thing. It strengthened the 'staying power' of the division. Churchill was displeased about the divisonal slice Throughout the war he was banging on about the Germans having more 'fighting' end in the division. The desert campaign and the storm across europe in '45 prove the logistic boons of the organisation.

The TOE of british units was more or less a result of the mobile warfare doctrine that ensued after the Great War. The battalion was trimmed down (to make it more mobile) and a lot of weapon systems was chosen on the same grounds.

The Lee Enfield stayed on as a service rifle rather than opting for a 'modern' semi automatic, on the grounds that if we adopt a weapon that fire 60 rounds a minute, we need to find logistics that can supply them with 60 rounds per minute. (sorr for straying from ou question there...)

[Noel Burgess]

Here are a few more links:-
For makeup of an armoured Brigabe see Armoured Brigade or
Armoured Units
and other pags on these two sites
For D Day Landing tables try D-Day : Normandy 1944 - GOLD BEACH : British Troops look for links on the left - these are for Infantry brigades bu give an idea of the complexity Incidenaly I think 22 Armd Bde landed on D+2

Noel

[4th wilts]

i understood an armoured brigade had 3 tank regiments,and an motorised inf battalion,along with other fore mentioned units.yours,4th wilts.

[Paul Reed]

Originally Posted by geoffrey hynes

what has happend to the 11 armoured division I DO NOT SEE IT ON THE LIST

Which list?