guards armd div.

[4th wilts]

was the household cavalry an integral part of the guards armd div.i understood british armd divs had an armd tank reconisance regt.in the case of this diviion i believe the welsh guards were the armd recon regt,using cromwell tanks.can anyone help.yours,4th wilts.

[sapper]

I dont know Lee, but I have seen action with the GAD on several occasions.
Great lads!

[4th wilts]

there were other recon regts using armd cars eg;the inns of court regt,was there not,independent i mean.these units were corps troops i believe.yours,lee.

[Owen]

Household Cavalry XXX Corps Recce I think.
Guards Armd were all Foot Guards regiments.
never understood why they did that to Foot Guards.
Why not stick the Household Cavalry in tanks & let Foot Guards be foot soldiers?
You quite right 2nd Bn Welsh Guards were recce in Cromwells.

[4th wilts]

i was reading that the welsh guards,in cromwells,did 100 miles in a day after the crossing of the seine,in which so many fine men from my neck of the woods died.apparentley this dash made george patton look over his shoulder.perhaps british tanks were better than i previously thought.yours,4th wilts.

[Bodston]

Originally Posted by Owen D

Guards Armd were all Foot Guards regiments.
never understood why they did that to Foot Guards.
Why not stick the Household Cavalry in tanks & let Foot Guards be foot soldiers?

I'm currently reading 'Our Armoured Forces' written by Lt. Gen. Sir Giffard LeQuesne Martel a great tank man and Commander Royal Armoured Corps (CRAC) between 1940-1942. In it he goes into the formation of the Guards Armd Div.
All of the existing Cavalry regiments had already been converted to armoured formations in either tanks or armoured cars. So selected infantry regiments were sought.

In April 1941 we began to consider our future expansion. Our five Armoured Divisions and three Army Tank Brigades (21st, 25th and 31st) were well launched and we could now expand further. The first problem that arose was whether we should form these new formations ab initio on cadres supplied by existing Royal Armoured Corps units, or whether we should take existing infantry formations and convert them into RAC formations. We pressed for the latter, because we did not consider that the existing RAC units could spare any personnel suitable to send as cadres. This principle was adopted. The first decision arrived at was to form a Guards armoured division, but it was not reached without a good deal of trouble. The War Office wanted to insist that the Guardsmen should leave the Guards and join the Royal Armoured Corps. We could see no necessity for this. We all agreed that the Guards go to extremes in these matters. Men belonging to the Grenadier Guards cannot go into the Coldstream Guards, etc., etc. In this way they handicap themselves unnecessarily. But there was no reason why the Brigade of Guards should not supply Guardsmen to form Guards armoured regiments. The War Office, however, remained completely opposed to forming a new armoured division from the Guards unless they became part and parcel of the Royal Armoured Corps. They would obviously make a magnificent armoured division and that was all that really mattered, but we had considerable difficulty before we obtained War Office sanction for a Guards armoured division which would always be supplied and manned by Guardsmen. As soon as this had been settled the Guards went to work with their usual enthusiasm and efficiency. Major-General Sir Oliver Leese was selected to command them. There was great competition to be in the Armoured Division and they got their pick. They started going to our training regiments in June. It was quite exhilarating to see the intense keenness with which they attended these classes. The Guards were, of course, determined to have the best armoured division. Anyone who did not seem to be grasping the work was changed, and they had plenty of excellent material to pick from. In this they had, of course, a great advantage. There was never any doubt as to the future success of this division. When they had found their feet, the Guards formed their own training centre for their recruits. This relived the pressure on our own training centres. The logical course would then have been to form a holding unit of Guardsmen trained in RAC work who could flow to any Guards armoured regiment, but this was resisted. The esprit de corps of the regiment was greater than that of the Brigade of Guards.

So it seems that existing infantry regiments with a very high esprit de corps were chosen to become armoured. As the RAC could not 'cherry pick' the best men to recruit into the tanks from the whole of the army, and it was thought that the pick of the volunteers were already going to the Navy and the RAF. It was considered the easiest way to obtain the best possible men into the tank corps.

[4th wilts]

noticed the term cherry pickers in this post bod.this is my memory here,so forgive me if i am wrong but i believe the 11th hussars had that nickname,and they may have been the 7th armd divs armd reconisance regt.yours,4th wilts.

[Bodston]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

noticed the term cherry pickers in this post bod.this is my memory here,so forgive me if i am wrong but i believe the 11th hussars had that nickname,and they may have been the 7th armd divs armd reconisance regt.yours,4th wilts.

Correct on all counts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Hussars

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

i was reading that the welsh guards,in cromwells,did 100 miles in a day after the crossing of the seine,in which so many fine men from my neck of the woods died.apparentley this dash made george patton look over his shoulder.perhaps british tanks were better than i previously thought.yours,4th wilts.

I think that British Tanks seem to get "Bad Press" and from what I can see not all of it was justified Lee. Maybe this stems from the Desert war but I thought that the tanks used later in the war were better.

[Owen]

Thanks for explaining the "why" Foot Guards were chosen.
I have on them is from The Grenadier Guards 1939-1945.