Good English

[angie999]

I know I lean towards the older end of the age spectrum, but am I alone in appreciating the use of good English on the forum? I mean the attempt, at least, to use good grammar, spelling and punctuation and to try and write something others will find readable.

Of course, allowances have to be made for people whose first language is not English and I got over the difference between British and American English long ago. What I deplore is poster who resort to geeky, childish "textspeak" and, in consequence, produce something which looks to me like gibberish. My reaction is to think, "Well, if you don't care about what you are saying, nore do I, so goodbye!"

Finally, a word of advice to practitioners of this strange art form: if your teachers are telling you that good English no longer counts in the working world, let me tell you that it does. Misguided educationalists may not dock marks from you for poor English, but prospective employers will. I say this as someone who regularly does staff recruitment. We set written tests, to be done there and then in handwiting, without a spellchecker. If you can't write a decent letter, you don't get the job. The reason is simple. Our customers want letters they can understand, written in good, plain English.

[DirtyDick]

I don't belieeeeve it!

I must agree in part with that opinion. Confusion very often lies in poor use of punctuation and expression rather than misspelling or abbreviating common words (such as in text speak). When one is confronted with a huge chunk of writing without any evident rhyme or reason to the punctuation (too few or, more especially, too many commas are most common), it does deter the reader.

I have no problem with someone using computer/texting shorthand as long as it is readily understandable to the vast majority, for otherwise they might not post at all: e.g. U for you; although 'gr8' for 'great' does grate a little upon my sensibilities!

The art of writing is to convey concisely what is in your brain to those about you. Whilst I would reject its usage in a formal essay, for posting on such a forum I have no problems with the personalised - albeit understandable - use of English, for it reflects the often informal nature of the discussion and encourages participation.

As John Humphries wrote in the ST last week, learning correct spelling and grammar and punctuation is not restricting personal expression and the growth of ideas - as has become a sacred cow among much of the teaching profession trained in the '70s and '80s - but rather it liberates thoughts by allowing the transmission of greater feeling or complex thought processes.

Chairs (sic)

Richard

(I am 27, so am sympathetic to your views on the teaching of language since I experienced directly such left-wing dogma. I recall, for example, that reversed Bs and Ds as written by some children were not marked as incorrect at my junior school since it might restrain the children's free thinking: yes, educational theorists of the '60s, and in later years it might also make them look a complete d*ck, put them off reading and prevent them getting anything other than an unskilled job.)

Most of my working life is spent in front of a pc, in my job I probably spend more time typing that writing or talking. At the moment I know I left around 80 e-mails in my inbox to be answered when I left theoffice on Friday. Now most of them were from people on the same floor and at most within shouting distance.

Its a sad fact that I think most of us do tend to cut corners when typing just simply from the point of view that we spend so much time doing it and want to save time when we know we have so much still to do.

My oldest son is ten, eleven in December. He is going to secondary school soon and looking at his writing there is no emphasis at all on punctuation. I asked his teacher why this was and the answer I got back was "it will come in time".

I am one of the worst when it comes to punctuation and I know it. But its only when I type. When I am writing it's always fine.

[morse1001]

No disrespect to anyone, however, one does get the feeling that this sub forum, is for all intents and purposes, just an excuse for a good grouse. One should point out that one is aware of the story told of the conversation between Col Carnes and the CSM of the Glosters just before the battle of the Imjim River concerning grousing.

Most people, oneself included, tend to look at the various postings on the forums and then reply to them without taking time to correct both spelling and grammar, thus making their answer more immediate

If one were deign to write a missive of somewhat longer length then, of course one would use all available facilities to produce the said missive in a more grammatically correct way.

Therefore, my view is, let things continue as they are. If some members write, a short pithy reply then let them go ahead without fear of a critical comment about their use of English in its written form.


Let us instead leave the criticisms to the factual content of the posting.

[angie999]

Originally posted by Lee Wisener@Oct 30 2004, 11:01 AM
At the moment I know I left around 80 e-mails in my inbox to be answered when I left theoffice on Friday. Now most of them were from people on the same floor and at most within shouting distance.

Quoted post

We have a policy in the office I manage, which has about 20 staff. We never send e-mails to one person in the office except where we would have written a memo and needed a written reply. We do circulate "for information" messages to the whole office though and we get a lot of stuff sent in to us which has to be forwarded.

When I left work yesterday at 5.00, my inbox was empty, but I know that there will probably be at least 20 waiting on Monday morning. Out of these, one or two will have useful information, one or two will require some sort of action and the rest can go straignt to trash. And don't people get offended if you don't read their message within the hour!

[Kiwiwriter]

As a newspaper copy editor and MFA in Creative Writing, I get angry when people carve up the English language. I feel that it promotes and justifies illiteracy. Who needs to know how to spell, write, or use grammar, when you can just stick down a smiley face to communicate an emotion? Sometimes when I read e-mail chat, I feel like I'm reading George Orwell's "newspeak." I also feel like I'm an outdated old fossil, who should be shoved off to the scrapheap.

[the_historian]

I'm fanatical about correct English too, whether written or typed. My wife moans constantly about my correcting our children's grammatical errors, as she also suffered from brainwashed Lefties at school. I might just be pedantic, but every time I read something, the first things to register in my head are any spelling/grammatical mistakes! It does matter in the real world.
I never use spellcheck for two reasons; I don't need it, and I'm sick of English words being questioned because they don't conform to American misspellings.
I think it strange that teachers insist correct spelling is unimportant, when they know they would never have been employed themselves under the same criteria.

[MalcolmII]

From another ' old f***' who shudders.

Ode to my Spell-Checker.

Eye have a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plane lea marks for my revue
Miss steaks eye kin not sea.

Eye strike the quay and type a word,
And weight for it to say
Weather eye am wrong or write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose before two long,
And eye can put the err roar rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
Eye am shore your pleased too no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

ANON.


I'll get my coat .......
Aye
MalcolmII

[CROONAERT]

Originally posted by angie999@Oct 30 2004, 03:25 AM
What I deplore is poster who resort to geeky, childish "textspeak" and, in consequence, produce something which looks to me like gibberish. My reaction is to think, "Well, if you don't care about what you are saying, nore do I, so goodbye!"

I totally agree with this. I hate "text speak" ( I 8 txt spk!!! :P ). It's absolute gobbledigook to me and has left me completely baffled on other forums in the past. Having a military background, I can live with acronyms and even like some that can crop up in day-to-day talk( Fubar, Tarfu, Snafu etc.), but "text speak" totally beats me!!! (And I'm not of the "older end of the age spectrum" !)

B.

[Compo]

MalcomII,

I submitted your ODE to the ministrations of my spell checker and apart from not liking chequer, which was too British for it, everything else passed!

Rgds Bill