Should Ex-german Soldiers Be Deported?

[Stich]

I came here to have intelligent open-minded discussions with World War II buffs. I assumed that this was a sight where we could discuss all aspects of World War II. To those of you who demonize every German soldier in that war(sappernz <_< ) and who believes that all German's are 'evil' I have to say i'm totally shocked at this response. And so damn what if I did have relatives that fought on the German side?! :angry: (FOR THE RECORD I DON'T!)I grew up with a neighbor that was in the German Wermacht, the regular army....you know, the ones who weren't SS and for the most part were drafted kids from farms and the woods scared shitless just like American boys, but i digress...He was a super intelligent man who ran his own business and he was well loved in our town. He certainly wasn't a murderer or a crazed sadist! He was a nice man that was caught in a huge tragedy.

I am a proud American who has had the pleasure to meet and talk to several veterans of WW II. I also had the privilege of knowing a German WW II veteran. Let me tell ya, nothing compares to a living, breathing man telling you about things that make 'Saving Private Ryan' look terribly cheesy.

My point is....WWII should be looked at properly 60 yrs later. Enough of the German soldier as the ultimate boogeyman, he wasn't, and it's unfair to portray all of them that way. Honestly, I expected a more intelligent response here. I'm very surprised.

[Stich]

In response to sappernz stating , "All camp guards were SS and all camps were controlled by the SS. They were all affiliated."
I found this little bit of info on the web........

Sobibor

Sobibor extermination camp was built in March, 1942, in a forest near the village of Sobibór in eastern Poland, on the Bug River. Initially, the camp was assigned to SS-Obersturmfuhrer, Richard Thomella. In April he was replaced by Obersturmfuhrer Franz Stangl. With the assistance of Christian Wirth, Stangl expanded the camp and its killing capacity. In August, Stangl was transferred to Treblinka and was replaced by SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Franz Reichleitner. The camp operated from May 1942 until October 1943. Its five gas chambers killed an approximate total of two hundred and fifty thousand Jews. Most came from Poland and from the occupied areas of the Soviet Union, Slovakia and Western Europe (Bohemia, Moravia, Holland and France.

Though it was the smallest of the Aktion Rhinehard camps, Sobibor gained popular national attention with the release of the 1987 made-for-television movie "Escape From Sobibor." The facts of the event are fairly depicted. On October 14, 1943 about 300 Jewish inmates assigned to Sondercommando duties carried out a well-planned revolt. Several SS and Ukrainian guards were killed along with several of the inmates. Those who escaped fled to the surrounding area

Very few historic facts remain concerning this extermination camp. On 14 October 1943 about three hundred Jewish inmates assigned to the Sondercommando - special work assignment group at the camp rose in revolt killing several SS supervisors and Ukrainian guards. Several inmates were killed during the rebellion or during the escape attempt. The number of inmates who managed to escape is not certain but all who stayed behind were shot the next day. Following the revolt, the installations for mass extermination were destroyed and the area planted with trees. Only about fifty prisoners of Sobibor survived to tell their story to the world.

Treblinka

Treblinka was one of the most important extermination centers during WW II. It was located between the Polish towns of Siedlce and Malkinia, 62 miles northeast of Warsaw, Poland. Construction on the camp began in late May, 1942 and was ready for operation in July, 1942. The construction was carried out by Jewish and Polish slave labor under the direction of the SS. It was located about one and a half miles from the railway station.

Between July 1942 to September 1942, three hundred thousand Jews were transported from Warsaw to Treblinka. Later, in May of 1943, the entire population of the Warsaw ghetto was liquidated and most were transported to Treblinka. By July 11,1945, when Soviet troops entered Warsaw, more than 700,000 Jewish men, women, and children had been murdered at Treblinka.

Under the command of Franz Stangl, the killing process at Treblinka was very similar to that of Belzek and Sobibor. Upon their arrival by railway freight cars, the victims at Treblinka II were separated by sex and adults from children. They were told that they were being transported to other work camps but first they had to bathe and be disinfected. They were stripped of their clothing and other possessions, marched into buildings containing "bathhouses," and gassed with carbon monoxide poison produced by diesel engines and pumped in through ceiling pipes camouflaged as shower heads. The route from the selection area to the gas chambers passed through a narrow fenced-in passage known as "the tube." Many realized that they were going to their death and, when they resisted, were beaten, clubbed with rifle butts and whips by the camp staff. In September, 1942, several new and larger gas chambers were constructed.

The staff at both Treblinka was made up of about 40 SS officers and 150 Ukrainian guards. They made extensive use of Jewish prisoners called Sonderkommandos - special work units. When these workers became too weak to do their work they were killed and replaced by younger and stronger inmates. Their job included the removal of gold teeth, dentures, and other valuables from the corpses. They were forced to transport the corpses to mass graves for burial, and later, when the bodies were exhumed, were used to burn the victim's bodies on iron grates.

Hmmmmm....nope...looks like you're wrong sappernz, not ALL concentration camp guards were SS.
You can go to www.mtsu.edu~baustin-holocamp.html to read more about these camps, I just took a small exerpt from the page.

[sappernz]

Stitch where do I start.
This is a site, not a sight.
Why do you have to say your a proud American. Are there ashamed ones.
America has much to be proud of. It won the Civil War.
Having met many real soldiers, not Sylvester Stallone or apologetic German neighbours, I can tell you the real ones do not talk about the hell they went through.

[Stich]

Having met many real soldiers, not Sylvester Stallone or apologetic German neighbours, I can tell you the real ones do not talk about the hell they went through. They just know

Whaaaaat? They don't huh? So they hired actors to do the interviews for the 'Band of Brothers' miniseries? There's no Dick Winters or Bill Guarnere, etc.,
Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong but they are veterans and they 'talked' about their experiences.

[sappernz]

Stitch .......you found a bit of info on the web. It must be true.

[Pte1643]

Originally posted by angie999@Apr 2 2005, 08:51 AM
If they worked in the camps then they were not soldiers, even if you extend the definition of soldiers to the Waffen SS.

If they are war criminals they should be tried. I think it is virtually impossible that anyone worked in the camps in any capacity without committing crimes against humanity, so I think if it is proven that they were guards they should be punished.

If they truly were soldiers, then no action should be taken. I know or know of several former German WWII soldiers living in Britain who have worked hard and raised families here since 1945 and I think they should be left in peace.

Quoted post

Angie, I agree.

I also see the term SS "thrown" around alot in this coversation.

Just for clarity...

The Schutzstaffel (SS) were set up as a "Defence, or Protection, Force", so how exactly did they become to known to be reponsible for such attrocities, under guise of "Protection"?

The Waffen-SS (Or Armed Schutzstaffel), were technically detached from the 'standard' SS, and were indeed the REAL bad guys.
But then also the Waffen-SS were actually tactically connected to the Wehrmacht.

So that leads to the question... Who were the REAL bad guys?

Hmmm... <_<

Mark.

[Pte1643]

Originally posted by Stich@Apr 2 2005, 01:10 PM
I grew up with a neighbor that was in the German Wermacht, the regular army....you know, the ones who weren't SS

Quoted post

Sorry Stitch, just to clarify another point...

The Heer was the German "Regular Army"

Wehrmacht was the German "Armed Forces", consisting of 3 main parts...
Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.

[Nige GSX1400 UK]

Originally posted by david k@Apr 1 2005, 06:33 PM
why should ex german soldiers be deported?they served thier country right or wrong for what they believed in.any responsible for war crimes of course should be deported and brought to justice.

Quoted post

Okay David I agree German troops who fought by the rules of war should not be deported. The problem is all too many got away after the war because the Allies (U.S. U.K. and Soviet) thought ex Nazis would be useful in the then developing Cold War.

Now over 60 years on witnesses are almost impossible to find and most of the Nazi scum responsible lived comfortable lives before passing away in peace. I just hope God gives them their just reward. In the case of the SS and the Wehrmacht who took part in crimes eternal pain and suffering would be about right.

I recently visited the site of a massacre by the SS on May 28th 1940 nr Wormhout Northern France where approx 100 British troops were murdered in a barn by an LSAH unit for the 'crime' of fighting too well and holding up the German advance. At one point the British had even fixed bayonets and charged the SS after running out of ammo.

I am proud to say I also visited the spot where my Great Uncle died fighting with his anti tank unit only 500 metres from where later in the day the massacre took place. If he had been taken prisoner I have no doubt he would have been murdered too.

Sorry about the length of my reply but your post touched a nerve.
Nige
May the SS burn in hell 4ever.

[Stich]

Sorry Stitch, just to clarify another point...

The Heer was the German "Regular Army"

Wehrmacht was the German "Armed Forces", consisting of 3 main parts...
Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.

Yeah, I know, I was just using a generalization to separate from the SS. :P

[angie999]

Originally posted by Stich@Apr 2 2005, 12:15 PM
Oh, and I must say sappernz, read more books and shut your yap. You're very childish and ignorant :angry:

Tell ya what...next time we have a battle-of-the-wits, I'll check my brain at the door...We'll start even!

[post=]Quoted post[/post]

Stich, as one of the moderators, I think I need to advise you that we do not normally have this kind of remark on the board. In my opinion, several of your posts on this thread are outside what is accepatable. Ease up on your choice of remark.