Crocodiles at Brest

Owen · 31-05-2007, 08:43 AM

Just been reading about the battle for Brest in September '44.
The Americans asked for help from the British 79th Armd Div.
They sent B Sqn 141 RAC (the Buffs).
Why didn't the Americans have their own flamthrower tanks?
Did they have to borrow any of our "Funnies" again?
Anyone find any photos of Crocodiles helping the Americans?
EDIT here. Lone Sentry: 29 Let's Go! The Story of the 29th Infantry Division -- WWII G.I. Stories Booklet

I see there is a Croc as a memorial there.
http://www.armourarchive.co.uk/ptif_upd.pdf

Musée Mémorial Fort Montbarey

Paul Reed · 31-05-2007, 10:46 AM

Owen - do you have 79th Armoured history? If not, I will check in there later today.

Capt.Sensible · 31-05-2007, 11:04 AM

The US certainly had flamethowing tanks, the M4A3R3 version of the Sherman had a flamethrower in place of the main armament. I suppose none may have been available at that place at that time. I don't know how they were deployed: wether they were held in a central divisional level support unit or parcelled out to Regimental Combat Teams as part of the standard ORBAT or TOA as I think the US terms it.

H

Capt.Sensible · 31-05-2007, 11:09 AM

Aha! This sounds interesting:

No, the flame guns developed for the M4 by the Army were the E4R2-5R1
and E4R3-5R1 (standardized as the M3-4 and M3-3), the E6-R1 and the
E7-7 (two further series were completed postwar). They were all kits
that could be installed in vehicles and then removed. The Marines also
used the POA, which were complete conversions of existing vehciles.
But none of the conversion kits arrived in the ETO in time for
NEPTUNE, the first arrived and were installed in the initial shipment
of M4A3E2 in late September, which is why Crocs of 141 RTR were loaned
to the US for use at Brest.

Operating Tanks at Omaha first 6 hours - soc.history.war.world-war-ii | Google Groups

.

Owen · 31-05-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Reed

Owen - do you have 79th Armoured history? If not, I will check in there later today.

No Paul, I don't. I was out bid on ebay.

Cheers for looking.

Paul Reed · 31-05-2007, 12:16 PM

Ok, quite a lot in the Divisional History.

Text first:

(1)

(2)

(3)

(4)

Paul Reed · 31-05-2007, 12:18 PM

Photos of 141 RAC Crocs at Brest:

Paul Reed · 31-05-2007, 12:21 PM

Maps:

(1) General Map

(2) Map of the Fort

Paul Reed · 31-05-2007, 12:22 PM

Presentation of Honours:

Hope that helps, Owen?

Donnie · 31-05-2007, 06:28 PM

is there anything in that history of the 79th Arm Div book that relates to actions the 1FFY fought in.

Thanks, Donnie

31-05-2007, 10:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
Paul Reed Ubique Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK/France Posts: 2,854	Owen - do you have 79th Armoured history? If not, I will check in there later today. __________________ The WW2 Society: Remembering those from Britain & The Commonwealth who served 1939-45 - http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_society.htm

31-05-2007, 12:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
Paul Reed Ubique Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK/France Posts: 2,854	Ok, quite a lot in the Divisional History. Text first: (1) (2) (3) (4) __________________ The WW2 Society: Remembering those from Britain & The Commonwealth who served 1939-45 - http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_society.htm

31-05-2007, 12:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Paul Reed Ubique Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK/France Posts: 2,854	Photos of 141 RAC Crocs at Brest: __________________ The WW2 Society: Remembering those from Britain & The Commonwealth who served 1939-45 - http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_society.htm

31-05-2007, 12:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Paul Reed Ubique Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK/France Posts: 2,854	Maps: (1) General Map (2) Map of the Fort __________________ The WW2 Society: Remembering those from Britain & The Commonwealth who served 1939-45 - http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_society.htm

31-05-2007, 12:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Paul Reed Ubique Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK/France Posts: 2,854	Presentation of Honours: Hope that helps, Owen? __________________ The WW2 Society: Remembering those from Britain & The Commonwealth who served 1939-45 - http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_society.htm

31-05-2007, 11:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
Capt.Sensible Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Directly above the centre of the earth... Posts: 330	The US certainly had flamethowing tanks, the M4A3R3 version of the Sherman had a flamethrower in place of the main armament. I suppose none may have been available at that place at that time. I don't know how they were deployed: wether they were held in a central divisional level support unit or parcelled out to Regimental Combat Teams as part of the standard ORBAT or TOA as I think the US terms it. H

31-05-2007, 11:09 AM	#4 (permalink)
Capt.Sensible Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Directly above the centre of the earth... Posts: 330	Aha! This sounds interesting: No, the flame guns developed for the M4 by the Army were the E4R2-5R1 and E4R3-5R1 (standardized as the M3-4 and M3-3), the E6-R1 and the E7-7 (two further series were completed postwar). They were all kits that could be installed in vehicles and then removed. The Marines also used the POA, which were complete conversions of existing vehciles. But none of the conversion kits arrived in the ETO in time for NEPTUNE, the first arrived and were installed in the initial shipment of M4A3E2 in late September, which is why Crocs of 141 RTR were loaned to the US for use at Brest. Operating Tanks at Omaha first 6 hours - soc.history.war.world-war-ii \| Google Groups .

31-05-2007, 06:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Donnie Muay Thai Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: England Posts: 342	is there anything in that history of the 79th Arm Div book that relates to actions the 1FFY fought in. Thanks, Donnie __________________ My friends, we are kings amongst men. We are protectors of the truth, warriors of freedom and bringers of violence to the enemies of the Queen. We are killers of * of all creeds and colours. We are the British infantry. My website www.freewebs.com/dswgreatwar Dedicated to all of my family who fought and fell

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