St Nazaire - Futile Heroism? - Page 3

Warlord · 26-08-2008, 01:48 AM

Sounds to me like a way of saving face in view of a lot of screwups... Too bad it was based upon sacrificing a lot of men and a priceless monument of civilization.

Tom Canning · 26-08-2008, 07:49 AM

Warlord -
I suppose after 64 years it's easy to see many of the "screw ups" in the Italain campaign but the biggest to my mind was the total lack of a plan of any sort - whereas San Nazaire was very good plan -

one of the early screw ups was Clark's pulling the French back from near Altina to reinforce the failng 34th Division - had he reinforced the success of the French, then the tale might have been much different with thousands of casualties saved.

regarding the loss of the priceless monument - true many mosaics and frescoes could not be saved but - it appears that the Abbey is better than it was ...
have a look at this account ...
'
BBC - WW2 People's War - The Abbey at Montecassino

Warlord · 26-08-2008, 07:34 PM

Well, so it seems, although at the time, it meant the victory of evil over good.

Now, going back to Chariot: What was it that went so wrong? Was it too tight a plan, or were there execution flaws?

Tom Canning · 26-08-2008, 08:13 PM

Warlord -
Probably too far to go under enemy guns - can't really depend on all the sentries being asleep - there is alway one smarty pants !

Warlord · 26-08-2008, 08:26 PM

But, wasn´t there going to be an air raid to cover the approach of the convoy? Bad timing?

26-08-2008, 01:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
Warlord Veteran wannabe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Land of Eternal Spring Posts: 301	Sounds to me like a way of saving face in view of a lot of screwups... Too bad it was based upon sacrificing a lot of men and a priceless monument of civilization. __________________ If I go forward, follow me; if I stop, hurry me; if I retreat, kill me. Guatemalan special forces motto Picture shows an Israeli Avia downing an Egyptian Spitfire in ´48. Guatemala gave the deciding vote at the UN that year for Israel to become a nation.

26-08-2008, 07:34 PM	#23 (permalink)
Warlord Veteran wannabe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Land of Eternal Spring Posts: 301	Well, so it seems, although at the time, it meant the victory of evil over good. Now, going back to Chariot: What was it that went so wrong? Was it too tight a plan, or were there execution flaws? __________________ If I go forward, follow me; if I stop, hurry me; if I retreat, kill me. Guatemalan special forces motto Picture shows an Israeli Avia downing an Egyptian Spitfire in ´48. Guatemala gave the deciding vote at the UN that year for Israel to become a nation.

26-08-2008, 08:26 PM	#25 (permalink)
Warlord Veteran wannabe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Land of Eternal Spring Posts: 301	But, wasn´t there going to be an air raid to cover the approach of the convoy? Bad timing? __________________ If I go forward, follow me; if I stop, hurry me; if I retreat, kill me. Guatemalan special forces motto Picture shows an Israeli Avia downing an Egyptian Spitfire in ´48. Guatemala gave the deciding vote at the UN that year for Israel to become a nation.

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26-08-2008, 07:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
Tom Canning WW2 Veteran Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 652	Warlord - I suppose after 64 years it's easy to see many of the "screw ups" in the Italain campaign but the biggest to my mind was the total lack of a plan of any sort - whereas San Nazaire was very good plan - one of the early screw ups was Clark's pulling the French back from near Altina to reinforce the failng 34th Division - had he reinforced the success of the French, then the tale might have been much different with thousands of casualties saved. regarding the loss of the priceless monument - true many mosaics and frescoes could not be saved but - it appears that the Abbey is better than it was ... have a look at this account ... ' BBC - WW2 People's War - The Abbey at Montecassino

26-08-2008, 08:13 PM	#24 (permalink)
Tom Canning WW2 Veteran Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 652	Warlord - Probably too far to go under enemy guns - can't really depend on all the sentries being asleep - there is alway one smarty pants !

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