St Nazaire - Futile Heroism? - Page 6

Drew5233 · 01-05-2009, 12:41 AM

On the night of 27th/28th March, 1942, Lieutenant-Colonel Newman was in command of the military force detailed to land on enemy occupied territory and destroy the dock installations of the German controlled naval base at St. Nazaire. This important base was known to be heavily defended and bomber support had to be abandoned owing to bad weather. The operation was therefore bound to be exceedingly hazardous, but Lieutenant-Colonel Newman, although empowered to call off the assault at any stage, was determined to carry to a successful conclusion the important task which had been assigned to him. Coolly and calmly he stood on the bridge of the leading craft as the small force steamed up the estuary of the River Loire, although the ships had been caught in the enemy searchlights and a murderous cross-fire opened from both banks, causing heavy casualties. Although Lieutenant-Colonel Newman need not have landed himself, he was one of the first ashore and, during the next five hours of bitter fighting, he personally entered several houses and shot up the occupants and supervised the operations in the town utterly regardless of his own safety, and he never wavered in his resolution to carry through the operation upon which so much depended. An enemy gun position on the roof of a U-boat pen had been causing heavy casualties to the landing craft and Lieutenant-Commander Newman directed the fire of a mortar against this position to such effect that the gun was silenced. Still fully exposed, he then brought machine gun fire to bear on an armed trawler in the harbour, compelling it to withdraw and thus preventing many casualties in the main demolition area. Under the brilliant leadership of this officer the troops fought magnificently and held vastly superior enemy forces at bay, until the demolition parties had successfully completed their work of destruction. Bt this time, however, most of the landing craft had been sunk or set on fire and evacuation by sea was no longer possible. Although the main objective had been achieved, Lieutenant-Colonel Newman nevertheless was now determined to try and fight his way out into open country and so give all the survivors a chance to escape. The only way out of the harbour area lay across a narrow iron bridge covered by enemy machine guns and although severely shaken by a German hand grenade, which had burst at his feet, Lieutenant-Colonel Newman personally led the charge which stormed the position and under his inspiring leadership the small force fought its way to a point near the open country when, all ammunition expended, he and his men were finally overpowered by the enemy. The outstanding gallantry and devotion to duty of this fearless officer, his brilliant leadership and initiative, were largely responsible for the success of this perilous operation which resulted in heavy damage to the important naval base at St. Nazaire.

Drew5233 · 01-05-2009, 12:42 AM

For great gallantry, skill and devotion to duty when in charge of a Lewis gun in HM Motor Launch 306 in the St. Nazaire raid on the 28th March, 1942. Motor Launch 306 came under heavy fire while proceeding up the River Loire towards the port. Sergeant Durrant, in his position abaft the bridge, where he had no cover or protection, engaged enemy gun positions and searchlights on shore. During this engagement he was severely wounded in the arm but refused to leave his gun. The Motor launch subsequently went down the river and was attacked by a German destroyer at 50-60 yards range, and often closer. In this action Sergeant Durrant continued to fire at the destroyer's bridge with the greatest of coolness and with complete disregard of the enemy's fire. The Motor Launch was illuminated by the enemy searchlight and Sergeant Durrant drew on himself the individual attention of the enemy guns, and was again wounded in many places. Despite these further wounds he stayed in his exposed position, still firing his gun, although after a time only able to support himself by holding onto the gun mounting. After a running fight, the Commander of the German destroyer called on the Motor Launch to surrender. Sergeant Durrant's answer was a further burst of fire at the destroyer's bridge. Although now very weak he went on firing, using drums of ammunition as fast as they could be replaced. A renewed attack by the enemy vessel eventually silenced the fire of the Motor Launch but Sergeant Durrant refused to give up until the destroyer came alongside, grappled the Motor Launch and took prisoner those whe remained alive. Sergeant Durrant's gallant fight was commended by the German officers on boarding the Motor Launch. This very gallant Non-Commissioned Officer later died of the many wounds received in action. (The ML displaced 65 tons as against the destroyer Jaguar's 950 plus tons.)

Drew5233 · 01-05-2009, 12:43 AM

For great gallantry in the attack on St. Nazaire. He commanded a force of small unprotected ships in an attack on a heavily defended port and led HMS Campbeltown in under intense fire from short range weapons at point blank range. Though the main object of the expedition had been accomplished in the beaching of Campbeltown, he remained on the spot conducting operations, evacuating men from Campbeltown and dealing with strong points and close range weapons while exposed to heavy fire for one hour and sixteen minutes, and did not withdraw till it was certain that his ship could be of no use in rescuing any of the Commando Troops who were still ashore. That his Motor Gun Boat, now full of dead and wounded, should have survived and should have been able to withdraw through an intense barrage of close range fire was almost a miracle.

Drew5233 · 01-05-2009, 12:43 AM

For great gallantry and determination in the attack on St. Nazaire in command of HMS Campbeltown. Under intense fire directed at the bridge from point blank range of about 100 yards, and in the face of the blinding glare of many searchlights, he steamed her into the dock gates and beached and scuttled her in the correct position. This Victoria Cross is awarded to Lieutenant-Commander Beattie in recognition not only of his own valour but also that of the unnamed officers and men of a very gallant ship's company, many of whom have not returned.

Drew5233 · 01-05-2009, 12:44 AM

For great gallantry, skill and devotion to duty as gunlayer of the pom-pom in a motor gun boat in the St. Nazaire raid. Completely exposed and under heavy fire, he engaged positions ashore with cool and steady accuracy. On the way out of the harbour he kept up the same vigorous and accurate fire against the attacking ships, until he was killed at his gun. This Victoria Cross is awarded in recognition not only of the gallantry and devotion to duty of Able Seaman Savage, but also of the valour shown by many others, unnamed, in Motor Launches, Motor Gun Boats and Motor Torpedo Boats, who gallantly carried out their duty in entirely exposed positions against Enemy fire at very close range.

Drew5233 · 01-05-2009, 05:40 AM

I found this site earlier tonight and it is really worth spending some time having a look around. There are some great pictures and diagrams explaining what happened and when with a healthy dose of 'Now' pictures.

If you have a interest in Op Chariot you'll enjoy this site:

Op Chariot<-----Clickety Click

Regards
Andy

Gerard · 01-05-2009, 09:12 AM

Fantastic thread lads and really informative. Well done all.

Drew5233 · 15-05-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew5233

For great gallantry in the attack on St. Nazaire. He commanded a force of small unprotected ships in an attack on a heavily defended port and led HMS Campbeltown in under intense fire from short range weapons at point blank range. Though the main object of the expedition had been accomplished in the beaching of Campbeltown, he remained on the spot conducting operations, evacuating men from Campbeltown and dealing with strong points and close range weapons while exposed to heavy fire for one hour and sixteen minutes, and did not withdraw till it was certain that his ship could be of no use in rescuing any of the Commando Troops who were still ashore. That his Motor Gun Boat, now full of dead and wounded, should have survived and should have been able to withdraw through an intense barrage of close range fire was almost a miracle.

Interesting little ditty. I just found out his brother was murdered at Le Paradis, Major Lisle Ryder, 2nd Battalion Royal Norfolks.

James S · 16-05-2010, 12:55 AM

Having read Bart150's posts at the start of this thread it also begs the question why go after Tirpitz to sink her when in November 44 she was already disabled beyond repair - she was never going to sea again and given the focus of the Allied war effort Tirpitz was really a back number.
Would sinking her really have been worth say the loss of 5-10 Lancasters and the aircrew on them - I would say not.....all it would have taken was that the Luftwaffe had shown up as it should have.

Given the reading of signal traffic we must have known how damaged she was and that her sea going days were over , I have pondered this on and off and Bart150's mention of the dock and the raid itself brings this to mind .

Sorry to take this one off topic but the 617 raid which sank Tirpitz might have had some parallels with "Chariot" but for the German fighters failing to show.

I wish BBc would release some of their excellent documentary programmes to the "History Channel" or show them themselves , Ludovic Kennedy did three excellent studies of Bismarck , Scharnhorst and Tirpitz - there also exists a really good account of the Chariot raid - when so much lesser material gets shown why is this real quality overlooked ?

phylo_roadking · 16-05-2010, 01:58 AM

James - I take it you're not a chess player

St Nazaire was about removing options. And it became far more "necessary" after the Bismarck's attempt to reach the Atlantic coast of France the year before.

The point about WWII naval battles involving single or a very few commerce raiders was that while it becomes relatively easy to close the stable door - and for instance stop the Bismarck from simply turning round and dashing back for the shelter of Norway - once a single major surface unit or pair of them is loose in an ocean you have to worry about SEVERAL things - where she is at any one time, where she's going to be at various intervals in the next 12-24-36 hours.....and where she's going to be ULTIMATELY if you've "closed the door" behind her

Once an Atlantic haven was removed from the KM's options - the British knew that wherever or whatever the Tirpitz did - ultimately she'd have to end up EITHER back where she started - or make a dash into the Baltic where she wouldn't be any harm anyway.

The converse of that is the Kriegsmarine knows that once she sets sail - she has to make a fast dash to intercept something THEN turn round and dash back to Norway - through Home Fleet steaming down on her

On the aspect of the Allies not knowing how badly she was damaged - AFAIK the Germans kept up a marvellous pretence that fooled even the close watch MilOrg was keping on her "on the ground" so to speak. And that pretence involved keeping up a flow of fake signals' traffic. IIRC it was actually some years after the war before the degree of damage done by the RN was actually known...

After all - we'd done exactly the same in the early summer of 1941, keeping up deck watches etc. on at least one battleship sitting settled in the mud in Alexandria!

Yes, it may seem terribly brutal to use up mens' lives in simply "removing an option" - but that's why "war is hell"

The more complicated it gets away from guys in red coats marching in line and column, having a relatively marginal effect on the countryside they marched through - the more things we have invented that cost people's lives...

Regarding sinking her in late '44 - over the years I'm reading more and more that the British had a real fear of the German high Command taking off to Norway as a last resort....while at the same time buying a little into the American fear of an Alpine redoubt. On the last night of the war the FNSF's Mosquitos were tasked to bomb Kiel to stop that exact removal happening - Donitz' government was close at hand

And the moment the War came to an end the British flew the SAS to Norway, where in the first week of peace they blew up a LOT of the surrendered German equipment; the party, including Paddy Blair Mayne and Roy Farran of "Winged Dagger" and Crete fame, blew up the former garrison's stock of Pz IVs...despite the fact that the Norwegians had wanted to co-opt them into THEIR army!

This IIRC caused a little bit of friction between the two countries...
(The reason why for many years after the war the Norwegian Army used PzIIIs...!)

Imagine a "Norwegian Redoubt" with Tirpitz available to threaten an amphibious invasion force...

01-05-2009, 12:41 AM	#51 (permalink)
Drew5233 Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 13,418	LIEUTENANT-COLONEL AUGUSTUS CHARLES NEWMAN, VC. (Military Force Commander) On the night of 27th/28th March, 1942, Lieutenant-Colonel Newman was in command of the military force detailed to land on enemy occupied territory and destroy the dock installations of the German controlled naval base at St. Nazaire. This important base was known to be heavily defended and bomber support had to be abandoned owing to bad weather. The operation was therefore bound to be exceedingly hazardous, but Lieutenant-Colonel Newman, although empowered to call off the assault at any stage, was determined to carry to a successful conclusion the important task which had been assigned to him. Coolly and calmly he stood on the bridge of the leading craft as the small force steamed up the estuary of the River Loire, although the ships had been caught in the enemy searchlights and a murderous cross-fire opened from both banks, causing heavy casualties. Although Lieutenant-Colonel Newman need not have landed himself, he was one of the first ashore and, during the next five hours of bitter fighting, he personally entered several houses and shot up the occupants and supervised the operations in the town utterly regardless of his own safety, and he never wavered in his resolution to carry through the operation upon which so much depended. An enemy gun position on the roof of a U-boat pen had been causing heavy casualties to the landing craft and Lieutenant-Commander Newman directed the fire of a mortar against this position to such effect that the gun was silenced. Still fully exposed, he then brought machine gun fire to bear on an armed trawler in the harbour, compelling it to withdraw and thus preventing many casualties in the main demolition area. Under the brilliant leadership of this officer the troops fought magnificently and held vastly superior enemy forces at bay, until the demolition parties had successfully completed their work of destruction. Bt this time, however, most of the landing craft had been sunk or set on fire and evacuation by sea was no longer possible. Although the main objective had been achieved, Lieutenant-Colonel Newman nevertheless was now determined to try and fight his way out into open country and so give all the survivors a chance to escape. The only way out of the harbour area lay across a narrow iron bridge covered by enemy machine guns and although severely shaken by a German hand grenade, which had burst at his feet, Lieutenant-Colonel Newman personally led the charge which stormed the position and under his inspiring leadership the small force fought its way to a point near the open country when, all ammunition expended, he and his men were finally overpowered by the enemy. The outstanding gallantry and devotion to duty of this fearless officer, his brilliant leadership and initiative, were largely responsible for the success of this perilous operation which resulted in heavy damage to the important naval base at St. Nazaire. __________________ Combat Communicators of the British Army

01-05-2009, 12:42 AM	#52 (permalink)
Drew5233 Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 13,418	SERGEANT THOMAS FRANK DURRANT, VC. (1874047: Royal Engineers, attached 1Commando) For great gallantry, skill and devotion to duty when in charge of a Lewis gun in HM Motor Launch 306 in the St. Nazaire raid on the 28th March, 1942. Motor Launch 306 came under heavy fire while proceeding up the River Loire towards the port. Sergeant Durrant, in his position abaft the bridge, where he had no cover or protection, engaged enemy gun positions and searchlights on shore. During this engagement he was severely wounded in the arm but refused to leave his gun. The Motor launch subsequently went down the river and was attacked by a German destroyer at 50-60 yards range, and often closer. In this action Sergeant Durrant continued to fire at the destroyer's bridge with the greatest of coolness and with complete disregard of the enemy's fire. The Motor Launch was illuminated by the enemy searchlight and Sergeant Durrant drew on himself the individual attention of the enemy guns, and was again wounded in many places. Despite these further wounds he stayed in his exposed position, still firing his gun, although after a time only able to support himself by holding onto the gun mounting. After a running fight, the Commander of the German destroyer called on the Motor Launch to surrender. Sergeant Durrant's answer was a further burst of fire at the destroyer's bridge. Although now very weak he went on firing, using drums of ammunition as fast as they could be replaced. A renewed attack by the enemy vessel eventually silenced the fire of the Motor Launch but Sergeant Durrant refused to give up until the destroyer came alongside, grappled the Motor Launch and took prisoner those whe remained alive. Sergeant Durrant's gallant fight was commended by the German officers on boarding the Motor Launch. This very gallant Non-Commissioned Officer later died of the many wounds received in action. (The ML displaced 65 tons as against the destroyer Jaguar's 950 plus tons.) __________________ Combat Communicators of the British Army

01-05-2009, 12:43 AM	#53 (permalink)
Drew5233 Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 13,418	COMMANDER ROBERT EDWARD DUDLEY RYDER, VC, RN. (Naval Force Commander) For great gallantry in the attack on St. Nazaire. He commanded a force of small unprotected ships in an attack on a heavily defended port and led HMS Campbeltown in under intense fire from short range weapons at point blank range. Though the main object of the expedition had been accomplished in the beaching of Campbeltown, he remained on the spot conducting operations, evacuating men from Campbeltown and dealing with strong points and close range weapons while exposed to heavy fire for one hour and sixteen minutes, and did not withdraw till it was certain that his ship could be of no use in rescuing any of the Commando Troops who were still ashore. That his Motor Gun Boat, now full of dead and wounded, should have survived and should have been able to withdraw through an intense barrage of close range fire was almost a miracle. __________________ Combat Communicators of the British Army

01-05-2009, 12:43 AM	#54 (permalink)
Drew5233 Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 13,418	LIEUTENANT- COMMANDER STEPHEN HALDEN BEATTIE, VC, RN. (In command: HMS Campbeltown) For great gallantry and determination in the attack on St. Nazaire in command of HMS Campbeltown. Under intense fire directed at the bridge from point blank range of about 100 yards, and in the face of the blinding glare of many searchlights, he steamed her into the dock gates and beached and scuttled her in the correct position. This Victoria Cross is awarded to Lieutenant-Commander Beattie in recognition not only of his own valour but also that of the unnamed officers and men of a very gallant ship's company, many of whom have not returned. __________________ Combat Communicators of the British Army

01-05-2009, 12:44 AM	#55 (permalink)
Drew5233 Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 13,418	ABLE SEAMAN WILLIAM ALFRED 'BILL' SAVAGE, VC. (Gunner, forward pom pom, MGB 314) For great gallantry, skill and devotion to duty as gunlayer of the pom-pom in a motor gun boat in the St. Nazaire raid. Completely exposed and under heavy fire, he engaged positions ashore with cool and steady accuracy. On the way out of the harbour he kept up the same vigorous and accurate fire against the attacking ships, until he was killed at his gun. This Victoria Cross is awarded in recognition not only of the gallantry and devotion to duty of Able Seaman Savage, but also of the valour shown by many others, unnamed, in Motor Launches, Motor Gun Boats and Motor Torpedo Boats, who gallantly carried out their duty in entirely exposed positions against Enemy fire at very close range. __________________ Combat Communicators of the British Army

01-05-2009, 05:40 AM	#56 (permalink)
Drew5233 Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 13,418	I found this site earlier tonight and it is really worth spending some time having a look around. There are some great pictures and diagrams explaining what happened and when with a healthy dose of 'Now' pictures. If you have a interest in Op Chariot you'll enjoy this site: Op Chariot<-----Clickety Click Regards Andy __________________ Combat Communicators of the British Army

01-05-2009, 09:12 AM	#57 (permalink)
Gerard The Wiggles are ok! Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,689	Fantastic thread lads and really informative. Well done all. __________________ *"The Eastern front is like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point all the rest will collapse."* - General Heinz Guderian Lead Singer with PROUDFOOT

16-05-2010, 12:55 AM	#59 (permalink)
James S Very Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Omagh N.Ireland Posts: 2,145	Having read Bart150's posts at the start of this thread it also begs the question why go after Tirpitz to sink her when in November 44 she was already disabled beyond repair - she was never going to sea again and given the focus of the Allied war effort Tirpitz was really a back number. Would sinking her really have been worth say the loss of 5-10 Lancasters and the aircrew on them - I would say not.....all it would have taken was that the Luftwaffe had shown up as it should have. Given the reading of signal traffic we must have known how damaged she was and that her sea going days were over , I have pondered this on and off and Bart150's mention of the dock and the raid itself brings this to mind . Sorry to take this one off topic but the 617 raid which sank Tirpitz might have had some parallels with "Chariot" but for the German fighters failing to show. I wish BBc would release some of their excellent documentary programmes to the "History Channel" or show them themselves , Ludovic Kennedy did three excellent studies of Bismarck , Scharnhorst and Tirpitz - there also exists a really good account of the Chariot raid - when so much lesser material gets shown why is this real quality overlooked ? __________________ http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S8gRx8tWJmI http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8poZshcDj8g http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mpUK7Dm-IPI http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c49tRp...eature=related http://www.open2.net/oulecture2005/the_lecture.html

16-05-2010, 01:58 AM	#60 (permalink)
phylo_roadking Very Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: feels like Brigadoon! Posts: 1,264	James - I take it you're not a chess player St Nazaire was about removing options. And it became far more "necessary" after the Bismarck's attempt to reach the Atlantic coast of France the year before. The point about WWII naval battles involving single or a very few commerce raiders was that while it becomes relatively easy to close the stable door - and for instance stop the Bismarck from simply turning round and dashing back for the shelter of Norway - once a single major surface unit or pair of them is loose in an ocean you have to worry about SEVERAL things - where she is at any one time, where she's going to be at various intervals in the next 12-24-36 hours.....and where she's going to be ULTIMATELY if you've "closed the door" behind her Once an Atlantic haven was removed from the KM's options - the British knew that wherever or whatever the Tirpitz did - ultimately she'd have to end up EITHER back where she started - or make a dash into the Baltic where she wouldn't be any harm anyway. The converse of that is the Kriegsmarine knows that once she sets sail - she has to make a fast dash to intercept something THEN turn round and dash back to Norway - through Home Fleet steaming down on her On the aspect of the Allies not knowing how badly she was damaged - AFAIK the Germans kept up a marvellous pretence that fooled even the close watch MilOrg was keping on her "on the ground" so to speak. And that pretence involved keeping up a flow of fake signals' traffic. IIRC it was actually some years after the war before the degree of damage done by the RN was actually known... After all - we'd done exactly the same in the early summer of 1941, keeping up deck watches etc. on at least one battleship sitting settled in the mud in Alexandria! Yes, it may seem terribly brutal to use up mens' lives in simply "removing an option" - but that's why "war is hell" The more complicated it gets away from guys in red coats marching in line and column, having a relatively marginal effect on the countryside they marched through - the more things we have invented that cost people's lives... Regarding sinking her in late '44 - over the years I'm reading more and more that the British had a real fear of the German high Command taking off to Norway as a last resort....while at the same time buying a little into the American fear of an Alpine redoubt. On the last night of the war the FNSF's Mosquitos were tasked to bomb Kiel to stop that exact removal happening - Donitz' government was close at hand And the moment the War came to an end the British flew the SAS to Norway, where in the first week of peace they blew up a LOT of the surrendered German equipment; the party, including Paddy Blair Mayne and Roy Farran of "Winged Dagger" and Crete fame, blew up the former garrison's stock of Pz IVs...despite the fact that the Norwegians had wanted to co-opt them into THEIR army! This IIRC caused a little bit of friction between the two countries... (The reason why for many years after the war the Norwegian Army used PzIIIs...!) Imagine a "Norwegian Redoubt" with Tirpitz available to threaten an amphibious invasion force... __________________ The smell of frying bacon - proof that aromatherapy isn't all bullshit... Last edited by phylo_roadking; 16-05-2010 at 02:19 AM.

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