Pearl Harbor

[Dpalme01]

Did the US have any hints that pearl harbor was coming or was it complete surprise?
Also, Could the US see Japans task force ( as in on radar) but thought it was US's?
Is it true that the US actually planned an attack on pearl harbor 10 years earlier?
Any other info would be appreciated.

[morse1001]

Originally posted by Dpalme01@Nov 2 2004, 02:21 PM
Did the US have any hints that pearl harbor was coming or was it complete surprise?

The cracking of the purple code gave America access to top level Japanese Comms

As for hints

"Tokyo sent Circular 2353 to Washington on November 19:
Regarding the broadcast of a special message in an emergency.
In case of emergency (danger of cutting off our diplomatic relations), and the cutting off of international communications, the following warning will be added in the middle of the daily Japanese language short-wave news broadcast :
1) In case of Japan-U.S. relations in danger: HIGASHI NO KAZE AME ("east wind rain")
2) Japan-U.S.S.R. relations: KITA NO KAZE KUMORI ("north wind cloudy")
3) Japan-British relations: NISHI NO KAZE HARE ("west wind clear") This signal will be given in the middle and at the end as a weather forecast and each sentence will be repeated twice. When this is heard please destroy all code papers, etc. This is as yet to be a completely secret arrangement.
Forward as urgent intelligence."

Kahn David., The Codebreakers, Weidenfeld, London, 1966 P32

This is an example od the sort of stuff obtained by Purple.


"Also, Could the US see Japans task force ( as in on radar) but thought it was US's?"

The Janpanese Fleet was outside of Radar range. I think what you may be thinking of was the arrival of the flight of unarmed B17s.



Is it true that the US actually planned an attack on pearl harbor 10 years earlier?
Any other info would be appreciated.

Quoted post

Yes they did. Like most military staff colleges, courses did carryout planing for attacks on various targets in order to findout any weakness in their forces.

Billy Mitchell actully wrote a fictionalised account which turned out to almost a perfect description of what actually happened.

in 1926, the Military Staff College in India carried out a war game based upon an enemy attack on Singapore. The conclusions reached by the war game was that, Singapore could not be defended from attack. One of the participants was the later Gen Percival the commander of singapre garrison when it fell.

[Dpalme01]

Thanks
exuse my ignorance but, who was billy mitchel?

[Kiwiwriter]

Originally posted by Dpalme01@Nov 5 2004, 07:13 AM
Thanks
exuse my ignorance but, who was billy mitchel?

Quoted post

Billy Mitchell was the first head of the US Air Service, leading it in World War I and after. He demonstrated the power of bombers by plastering and sinking a captured German battleship, the Ostfriesland, off Chesapeake Bay, and promoted the idea of strategic air power, the bomber getting through, and so on. However, his statements were considered insubordinate, so he was court-martialed, with Pershing heading the court-martial, and convicted.

A number of folks pointed out Pearl Harbor's vulnerabilities, but its distance from live enemies and the limited development of carrier-based aviation negated those assertions. People often forget that the Pearl Harbor strike force was the largest carrier task force yet assembled, and the first multi-carrier task force in history. The Shokaku and Zuikaku were so new, they were on their shakedown cruises when they sailed for Hawaii.

It often bothers me that the studies of Pearl Harbor are more about the American mistakes than the Japanese planning. I agree with Jim Dunnigan's assessment, that Pearl Harbor was a success for the Japanese because they planned it well and got a little luck in the execution.

[Dpalme01]

Thanks alot
DP

[angie999]

The extent of prior knowledge of Japanese intentions by the US authorities can be a hotly disputed question.

There are certainly some who believe that the US authorities had it all worked out and did not try to stop it. See, for instance, John Tolland: "Infamy: Pearl Harbor and its Aftermath", 1982 (in print in a Penguin Classic edition). This book certainly contains much factual information, but a great many people disagree with Tolland's interpretation and conclusions, in whole or in part.

My view is that the US authorities - and the British - thought that a Japanese attack somewhere was imminent and, of course, near simultaneous attacks on the Phillipines and Malaya did take place. I do not think anyone really foresaw though the possibility of the attack which took place on Pearl Harbor. That is my opinion anyway.