Who Downed Douglas Bader?

[Peter Clare]

Channel 4 UK TV. 7:00pm - 9:00pm Monday 28 August.

One -off documentary in which aviation historian Andy Saunders and air-crash investigator Bernie Forward hunt for the plane of Douglas Bader. The daring Spitfire pilot lost both legs in an accident before WWII and was then allegedly shot down by a German Messerschmitt and became a pow - but accounts from the time suggest that the events may have been somewhat different.

[morse1001]

Originally Posted by Peter Clare

Channel 4 UK TV. 7:00pm - 9:00pm Monday 28 August.

One -off documentary in which aviation historian Andy Saunders and air-crash investigator Bernie Forward hunt for the plane of Douglas Bader. The daring Spitfire pilot lost both legs in an accident before WWII and was then allegedly shot down by a German Messerschmitt and became a pow - but accounts from the time suggest that the events may have been somewhat different.

should be interesting, I am off then so I can watch it for a change!

[52nd Airborne]

There was an article in "After the Battle" magazine last year (I think!) about who downed Douglas Bader and very interesting it was too!!!!!

[Stephen White]

While reading the free paper (Daily Express) in Costa Coffee this morning. There was an article concerning this matter and the forth coming programme, the article claims that he MAY have been shot down by Buck Casson a pilot from Bader's own squadron.

This theory is based on information un earthed by Andrew Saunders, that Casson after the war claims to have shot down an Me109 on the same day that Bader was shot down. His description of the incident exactly mirrors what is supposed to have happened to Bader. However a search of combat records, reveals that only one Me109 was shot down that day and that has been attributed to a pilot called Nip Heppel. Also Adolf Galland's says, his squadron were in the area that day and none of his men have ever claimed to have shot down Bader or collided with him.

Some claim that Casson and Bader were aware of the "truth" and covered it up, others (a man called Dilip Sarkar) claim Casson did shoot down Bader, but neither he or Bader were aware of the fact. Should prove to be an interesting programme, especially as Dilip Sakar who was a consultant on the programme, is reportedly "unhappy" about how all this is been presented in the programme.

[Owen]

Who watched it then?
Was it news to you aeroplane buffs?
Was to me.
Thought it was a bit long-winded and slow to get going but I was sniffing (not crying, honest) at the end when they gave the flying-helmet to the other DB's Widow.

[Harry Ree]

A very interesting programme of research.

The main point about it is that operational reports can be subject to error for a number of reasons and at times cannot be validated, unlike logbooks which require the endorsement of a superior.

For example,history has not yet revealed who really shot down Admiral Yamamoto's "Betty" in the Pacific war.Two pilots were both claiming the victim

[Stephen White]

I found the whole programme long winded and dis-jointed.

As a "Mature" student who is studying archaeology and has just passed his archaeology A Level, I found their treatment of the Spitfire they actually dug up downright criminal. This was supposedly a man who had excavated 30+ crash sites and is a "proffesional", if this is how he treats wreckage that are potential graves, I want nothing to do with it or him.

The excavation side did not sit at all well with the deskbound investigation of maps, paperwork, combat reports, etc, etc. Which in my comparison was well done and very interesting.

As regards WHO shot down Douglas Bader on the evidence of what was presented to us all in the programme, I'd say the balance of probability says it was Buck Casson, but even that needs further investigation.

Stephen

[Owen]

Good point Stephen, once they'd got the Spitfire up they did tend to chuck the bits around didn't they?
They didn't know whose aircraft it was and it could have still contained the pilot.
Did it need to be two hours long?
Did we need to see so much of the Battle comic from 1982?
In saying that some of the program was really good, such as visiting Galland's old HQ, the paper-chase and the portrayal of extensive field searching for no results.

[Stephen White]

Owen

My wife who has little or no interest in WW1, WW2 or archaeology beyond what she picks up off me, sat and watched this programme with me. She actually got up and walked out, at the point they started pulling the remains about, saying "what if the pilots still in it, if it were my husband, I'd be mortified". She likened it to an excited 4 year old ripping the paper of their christmas presents!!

I too felt there was no need for the programme to be so long and the constant flashbanks to Battle comic added nothing to the content of the programme other that "pad it out a little".

The "paperchase" was indeed the best part of the programme and was very imformative and absorbing. In fact I think it warranted a programme all on it's own. This though was what made the excavation part of the programme even more disappointing, as these pre dig investigations were so good.

I did also enjoy the part were Bader was "invited to tea" by Adolf Galland and his men, the resulting photographs that we were shown on the programme and the story of Galland's polite refusal to let Bader take a Me109 "for a spin" were a wonderful piece of history. As was Churchill's insistance that a replacement leg for Bader was dropped during a normal bombing raid, wonderful stuff!!

Owen you are truely made of sterner stuff than I. I actually blubbed during the piece where the widow of the pilot of they Spitfire they excavated was presented with his flying helmet and goggles. They redeemed themselves a little with that!

Not one of Channel 4's better efforts but there were enough good points to out weigh the bad.