Der Brand - The Fire

[spidge]

Has anyone read this book?

Alm

A synopsis of the book by Jörg Friedrich

Supposedly not in English print as yet.

[lancesergeant]

I don't think many will want to knowing this person's bias against the Allies. Poor Germany this,poor Germany that.
Objective discussion and criticism I can understand and accept. His comments that perpetrators can also be victims. Perpetrator and victim one and the same person - don't think so somehow.If it had been said, as a result of perpetrators fellow countrymen/women suffered as a consequence, this would have been logical. There were a lot of Germans who suffered because of their countrymen's actions. In wartime one does not have the luxury of his insight. The immediate problem is beating the enemy defeating them and bringing the conflict to a successful conclusion. However I think his musings will get short shrift from the Aussies who can personally remember the conflict. Friedrich has his one man crusade. He tries to prick the Allied conscience, but fails to realise that those in Bomber Command and the USAAF didn't relish their task, but did their duty regardless, at great loss to themselves. One can listen to his viewpoints on the Sky and digital channels and draw their own conclusions.

I don't find his arguments balanced or objective only in a sense to get over that the Germans have been given a bad press -period.

[spidge]

This is a statement in the synopsis that got me.

We have become over-saturated with Holocaust memorabilia, at the expense of a more balanced approach.

[Harry Ree]

I think the publication has to be answered.

My point of view is that the book is yet another attempt to tell the world that the German people suffered more than the victims of Nazi ideology in practice, an ideology which received considerable support from the German people.When Hitler assumed power throught the NSAP,it became clear that the Nazi Party was formed for war.The population was generally endorsing of the early victories.There was dissent but the regime managed this by counter intelligence, sufficient for outsiders to think that there was little chance of the regime collapsing internally.

The Wehrmacht certainly knew this from the rearmament policy from 1935.
The leadership of the Wehrmacht saw throught the policy of circumventing the Versailles Treaty because they would be part of the military expansion of the new order and would experiencing the rekindling of Prussian militarism.The problem for the Wehrmacht was that they did not see the part that Hitler's party machine (the SS) would have in the regime and that part would be regarded by Hitler as greater in importance.

Friedrich's reference to "Systematically planned and executed extermination campaign of German cities" has greater ties with Hitler's declaration of his expansionist policy of Lebensraum at the secret Hossback Conference of November 5 1937, a policy of intended destruction of the Polish State and the Soviet Union.The war in the East turned out to have more victims and the razing to the ground of more cities than Germany had to experience.

I do not think that this publication will have any sympathy from those who suffered at the hands of Nazi babarism, particularly those in the East and the Balkans.For examples of victim's corpses,then equally go to the numerous sites in the occupied countries for examples of outrages against the civilian population.Go to Oradour sur Glane for many examples of "cadavre calcine" when killing was almost one to one.

The policy of bombing of cities to terrorise their countries into submission featured predominately in the creation of Hitler's "Greater Germany", Warsaw being the first to be razed to the ground,Rotterdam,threatened with complete destruction followed, even after the Dutch had agreed to, and were in the process of surrendering.Later, Belgrade under the threat and fear of a Luftwaffe aerial onslaught surrendered.For the Luftwaffe,aerial bombing of cities gave early returns in what the Germans thought would be a lightening war.It might give some balance to the debate if Friedrich acknowledges this.

Off the cuff,Germany lost 600.000 civilians in the Allied bombing.France, during the German occupation,lost 200,000 civilians,not from the air but from the barbarity of the Nazi occupying regime.Britain lost 60.000 civilians to German bombing and rockets.Of these 43.000 civilians were killed by Luftwaffe bombing between August 1940 and May 1941 when Hitler was attempting to destroy British civilian morale.During this time Bomber Command, on attacks on German targets lost more aircrew than Germany lost civilians.

It should also be remembered that at the start of the war, Bomber Command were expressly forbidden to bomb German cities for the sake of civilian lives and the fear of reprisal raids.Further, the Air Ministry were instructed by the then Air Minister that they could not bomb the Ruhr industry because it was private property.

There is no doubt that had the Great War continued,then Berlin would have been bombed using HP 0/400 bombers.Operations were only cancelled when it was realised that an Armistice was in the offing.Thus the German capital never experienced aerial bombing as London had done,a price that Germany would have to pay in full in the Second World War when the policy was to eliminate Nazism and Prussian militarism for good and impose democracy.

[spidge]

Maybe it was tit for tat!

From timeline of NE England.

World War Two North East England Timeline

Many lives were lost in the North-East, where the gr eat industrial centres of the Tyne, Tees and Wear were a constant victim of the bombing raids of German aircraft. Even non-industrial cities like York were in danger and were targetted specifically because of their rich heritage in the so-called ‘Baedeker raids’ aimed at demoralising the British nation by the destruction of its history.

[spidge]

The Baedeker Raids were conducted by the German Luftwaffe Luftflotte 3 in two periods between April and June 1942. It targeted relatively unimportant strategically but picturesque cities in England. The cities were reputedly selected from the German Baedeker Tourist Guide to Britain, meeting the criterion of having been awarded three stars hence the English name for the raids. Baron Gustav Braun von Sturm, a German propagandist is reported to have said on 24 April 1942 following the first attack, "We shall go out and bomb every building in Britain marked with three stars in the Baedeker Guide."
The cities attacked were: First period

• Exeter (April 23 and April 24; May 3)
• Bath (April 25 and April 26)
• Norwich (April 27 and April 29)
• York (April 28)

Second period, following the bombing of Cologne

• Canterbury (May 31; June 2 and June 6)

Across all the raids on these five cities a total of 1,637 civilians were killed and 1,760 injured, and over 50,000 houses were destroyed. Some noted buildings were destroyed but on the whole most escaped - the cathedrals of Norwich and Canterbury included. The German bombers suffered heavy losses for minimal damage inflicted, and the Axis' need for reinforcements in North Africa and Russian Front meant further operations were restricted to hit-and-run raids on coastal towns by a few Focke-Wulf Fw 190 fighter-bombers.
Several other raids are sometimes included under the Baedeker title, although only a few aircraft were involved in each and damage was not extensive. These raids were all on East Anglian locations.

• Bury St Edmunds
• Cambridge
• Great Yarmouth
• Ipswich

[Harry Ree]

[quote=spidge;7643]Maybe it was tit for tat

Hitler had raised the tempo with his threat as early as of June 6 1940. Typical of his threats,he warned,"As our enemies still reject peace,they shall have war of total annihilation".This was against the background of knowing that there were certain personalities in British influential circles who with a track record of admiring Hitler and his regime,still wished for "an accomodation" with Nazi Germany

Regarding the Baedeker raids,it was thought that the raids were in retaliation for the raid on Lubeck on the night of 28/29 March 1942.

This raid was said to be the first successful raid for Bomber Command.Nearly 70% of the tonnage dropped of a total of 400 tons were incendiary which had a devasting effect on the old town which was largely composed of wood.

On important aspect of this raid was that the Dragerwerke factory which produced oxygen equipment for the Kriegsmarine U Boats was destroyed.Considering that the Allies were experiencing heavy losses in their merchant fleets during the Battle of the Atlantic,the raid was a start in the campaign to keep the Atlantic open for supplies.

(The Drager company are still in existence and are renowned for their gas analysis equipment,both in system and phial use.Some in the UK may have witnessed their equipment in use as the Breathalyser)

The port of Lubeck was not raided again when the IRC pointed out that the port was used to handle Red Cross supplies.

[Chindit]

Originally Posted by spidge

This is a statement in the synopsis that got me.

We have become over-saturated with Holocaust memorabilia, at the expense of a more balanced approach.

Assuming that this sentiment is replicated in the book itself, you'd need no further justification for avoiding the book. Germany started the war, and initiated its worst horrors. Whatever was done to it was as a result of that, and to prevent Germany doing it again. And how anyone thinks that commemorating the holocaust 'unbalances' the view is beyond me; Amongst all the brutality of the regime, this was its worst feature. For any author to argue otherwise automatically destroys his credibility in my view.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Chindit

Assuming that this sentiment is replicated in the book itself, you'd need no further justification for avoiding the book. Germany started the war, and initiated its worst horrors. Whatever was done to it was as a result of that, and to prevent Germany doing it again. And how anyone thinks that commemorating the holocaust 'unbalances' the view is beyond me; Amongst all the brutality of the regime, this was its worst feature. For any author to argue otherwise automatically destroys his credibility in my view.

My sentiments also!

It is strange that the second generation of allied children after ww2 are inclined to blame the US for dropping the bombs on the Japanese.

How the worm turns!

[Gibbo]

The review is on the website of the Adelaide Institute. Isn't that a Holocaust denial site?