Moscow

[Dpalme01]

Why didn't the Germans first make a drive for Moscow and then after putting the government and army in turmoil strike at the economic targets?

[morse1001]

Why didn't the Germans first make a drive for Moscow and then after putting the government and army in turmoil strike at the economic targets?

As originally planeed the germans did believe that Russia would fall within six to eight weeks.

When Russia did not fall then Germany had to make new plans. Hitlers biggest mistake in Russia was his move towards Stalingrad as a propaganda target and not go for the oilfields

[Thomas McCall]

The target always was the Caucasian oil fields, Panzer Divisions need oil and Hitler knew that. Stalingrad was a place that was not expected to be the deathbed of the Sixth Army as it was. Hitler's obession with the city was because that Stalingrad was the most Eastern advance made by the Whermacht and of course it hold's Stalin's name.

Even if Moscow fell to the Whermacht in 1941 it's probable that the Soviet Union would have carried on fighting.

[Ryuujin]

wasnt moscow the center of russia's massive railway network? wouldn't have losing it seriosuly hampered russia's abilitty to fight the war?

[Friedrich H]

wasnt moscow the center of russia's massive railway network? wouldn't have losing it seriosuly hampered russia's abilitty to fight the war?

Yes, it was. But how in the world could Germany take Moscow? Germany failed miserably at taking a miserable little town in the Volga called Stalingrad and a city, as large as Moscow but completely unfavoured by georgraphy, called Lieningrad!

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Originally posted by Friedrich H@May 6 2005, 10:19 PM

Yes, it was. But how in the world could Germany take Moscow? Germany failed miserably at taking a miserable little town in the Volga called Stalingrad and a city, as large as Moscow but completely unfavoured by georgraphy, called Lieningrad!

Quoted post

Yes but before that little skirmish in Stalingrad they did try to take it and nearly succeeded!!!!

[Friedrich H]

Yes but before that little skirmish in Stalingrad they did try to take it and nearly succeeded!!!

Are you referring to Moscow or Stalingrad?

Because, even if Stalingrad was about to fall in several ocassions, Moscow was not.

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Originally posted by Friedrich H@May 10 2005, 01:05 AM

Are you referring to Moscow or Stalingrad?

Because, even if Stalingrad was about to fall in several ocassions, Moscow was not.

Quoted post

sorry Friedrich I was referring to Moscow and they werent too far off if I'm not mistaken. I never claimed that they would, I said NEARLY. And they nearly did!! :P If the situation was never in doubt why did Stalin consider leaving the Capital?

[Friedrich H]

sorry Friedrich I was referring to Moscow and they werent too far off if I'm not mistaken. I never claimed that they would, I said NEARLY. And they nearly did!! If the situation was never in doubt why did Stalin consider leaving the Capital?

Stalin did consider leaving the capital, but he changed his mind in the last minute, even if his train was ready, and stayed.

Yes, scout units were only 17 km away of the city's centre and some German units had already captured streetcars' stations in the outskirts. But they absolutely couldn't go into the city, surround the city and win the battle. Why? Because German units were simply too weak to move on. They didn't have proper winter equipment and clothing (the fight for Moscow would have taken place in the midst of winter), enough ammunition, enough food, proper shelter (though, the soldiers could always throw away peasants from their huts) and, above all, reinforcements. German units were down to 50% or 40% of their numbers. If we add to this that the size of the battle would have been like that of Lieningrad and fiercer than Stalingrad, then there we have an immense and brutal urban fighting in the middle of the winter in which the Germans lose all their advantages and don't have the capacity to support a fighting Army inside the city, 2.000 km away from the supply depôts.

[Harry Ree]

In the spring of 1941,Hitler was still optimistic that he could achieve some sort of armistice with British.His wish was to fight on one front only and an understanding with GB would give him a free hand in his lebensraum ambitions in the East and to discharge his ideology of smashing the Soviet system.Further he was aware from US postures that the US might be brought into a European War.Hitler considered that a Russian war would be swift and prove victorious for Germany and would be over before the US could intervene.It was reported that he declared the Soviet system was rotten and one had "only to kick in the door and the house would collapse".There was a failure to understand that Russian communications were inferior to those in the West and there would be added complications of a different railway system gauge.

Consequently the Wehrmacht lost a valuable 6 weeks of operations in the posponement of Barbarossa and before the Wehrmacht could take Moscow, the Russian winter had closed in.The Wehrmacht were not equipped at this stage for intense operations in the depth of a Russian winter.Had the Wehrmacht moved against Russia in early May, then it is more than likely that Moscow would have fallen.As it was by 4th December,advanced Wehrmacht units had reached Moscow's western suburbs as the bad weather severely limited operations in Germany's favour but were of advantage to the Red Army.

Wehrmacht operations were not helped from mid December 1941 when Hitler in addition to his other state titles assumed the role of Commander in Chief. There would be no professional leadership of the Wehrmacht from this date to the collapse of the Nazi Regime.