Why Is Stalingrad So Important?

[Gestapo]

Trust whatever you want every one is free to trust and not to trust every one is free to read whatever he wants.I hope you all know that the history is write by the winers never by the losers.And remamber that the german army is not like in the movies.

Gestapo is my nick nothink more then that.

You read books and you trust and you watch movies and you say "Loool look how two american soldier kill one german devision" or "look how bad the germans are they are killing jut for fun"

[Exxley]

(Gestapo @ Jan 25 2006, 04:12 PM) [post=44842]Trust whatever you want every one is free to trust and not to trust every one is free to read whatever he wants.I hope you all know that the history is write by the winers never by the losers.And remamber that the german army is not like in the movies.

Gestapo is my nick nothink more then that.

You read books and you trust and you watch movies and you say "Loool look how two american soldier kill one german devision" or "look how bad the germans are they are killing jut for fun"
[/b]

Hence why so many people still stick with the common myth that winter alone was the only thing that saved the Soviet Union in 1941. And guess where this myth comes from ? German generals' memoirs. Seems in that case history wasnt exactly written only by winners.

And so which unit did you belong to when you were heading for Stalingrad exacty ?

[Gestapo]

I guess you never heart about 171 SS inf. devision ?

[angie999]

(Gestapo @ Jan 25 2006, 05:56 PM) [post=44848]I guess you never heart about 171 SS inf. devision ?
[/b]

I think nobody has heard of it, because it never existed. This site list all the SS fighting divisions. Check for yourself:

http://feldgrau.com/wssdiv.html

[Gestapo]

(angie999 @ Jan 25 2006, 06:08 PM) [post=44849]

I think nobody has heard of it, because it never existed. This site list all the SS fighting divisions. Check for yourself:

http://feldgrau.com/wssdiv.html
[/b]

Ok

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Also the 6th Army did not have any SS Formations within its Order of Battle


Order of battle 6th Army (19 Nov 1942)

HQ

IV Corps

29th (Mot.) Infantry Division

297th Infantry Division

371st Infantry Division

VII Corps

76th Infantry Division

113th Infantry Division

XI Corps

44th Infantry Division

376th Infantry Division

384th Infantry Division

XIV Panzer Corps

3rd (Mot.) Infantry Division

60th (Mot.) Infantry Division

16th Panzer Division

LI Corps

71st Infantry Division

79th Infantry Division

94th Infantry Division

100th Jäger Division

295th Infantry Division

305th Infantry Division

389th Infantry Division

14th Panzer Division

24th Panzer Division

9th Flak Division

51st, 53rd Mortar Regiment

2nd, 30th Nebelwerfer Regiment

4th, 46th, 64th, 70th Artillery Regiment

54th, 616th, 627th, 849th Artillery Battalion

49th, 101st, 733rd Heavy-artillery Battalion

6th, 41st Pioneer Battalion

[Gestapo]

you stay at home you open books and you start reading or you just go and seek for something in internet and more places for ww2 information.But your not right your just not right.Havent you heard for veteran meetings ? Why dont you go and listend what the soldier will tell you listen there storys they are true not the books or internet information.I also want to tell you that you think that you know everythink about the war but your not right.You even come here in the forum and start talking about diferent thinks in the war and more and more... I will start one simple quastion:
Have you read "Robinson Cruzo" writed by Daniel Defo ? However in the book Defo write a book but the book is like diary and the people think that this is a real man on a real islend but when Defo end the book he write "made by Defo" think about it..
After that i want to tell you that you musn't trust on any information that you see in internet i dont want you to trust me i dont care about what you trust i want just to tell you to find one veteran and ask him about the war.
Do you know that the germans have a airship called Foo Fighter they say that it can fly with 2900 km in hour. Do you trust that ? Im sure you dont and this is normal but some people say that there is such a ship.And such a ship is in area 51.Germans had really good weapons but you never heart about them and do you know why ? Because no one speak about them...
The diary that you read from veterans how are you so sure that they are real.How is possible soldier to step on a mine and to blow and then they find a diary in him. I hope you all kow what happend if man blow on a mine...
So much ww2 veterans meeting in USA and some people still dont go there... Why ? You think that you all know everythink just because you read some books

[Kiwiwriter]

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question...there was no 171st SS Division, no SS outfit at Stalingrad, so what unit were you with?

We're not disputing the point, we just want to know.

[J_McAllister]

I've been a voyeur in this forum for quite some time now and I must say that this is the most stimulating thread I have yet to read. Would have to agree with Gestapo that you can't trust everything you read, however is it just coincidence that all the authors out there are on the same page? I don't think so.

Very colorful posts Gestapo and love the clip of Sgt. Horvath

[jimbotosome]

I don't know the facts here on Gestapo of what is true and what is not but his sentiment is spot on. There is a blind faith here that historians as a group have some infallibility and gospel truth to their statements. Publish and get a wink from the establishment and you have instant credibility regardless of how many of your “peers” disagree with you. The more you publish the more accurate your view.

Then we as neophytes, simply pick our favorite and he has the gospel truth that will stand the test of time or assume that, though they all disagree on some issues, they can’t all be wrong on a given issue. If Gestapo is telling the truth and historians got their take on things primarily from the winners or selected of the losers then the whole system of belief is suspect. Since all the SS were in POW camps, gulags, or on trial during the period where factual data would have been most fertile, then where did the substitute data come from? Who filled in the blanks? Even if these SS soldiers had been available to add their two cents worth in, who would believe them since as we see people claim here there is no such thing as a decent SS soldier and they are incapable of telling the truth about what went on. The SS soldiers are claimed to all have known everything that was going on, they all were wicked, and they would all lie about anything you would ask them, none were misguided but rather all malicious. How can we take that view and not expect dubiousness in the assumed facts of issues that only they would know?

If I ever saw a breeding ground begging for error, it would be this area. The substute facts would/are likely to be simply a composite of emotion, hearsay, other compounded error as well and a little leaven leavens the whole lump. All history is to a certain degree. Look how often it is revised, sometimes radically when facts surface. It is like science in that it is often wrought with error and somewhere between the claims and the analysis is the truth, and is a perpetual search for the real truth. Throw in the arrogance and high-mindedness of being one of the “in” historians, notorious, famous, and you can image the potential for error that portrays itself as fact.

But to think that truth has been established and published and is by default highly reliable, then a forum like this would be redundant. We would simply compile all the “unquestionable” facts into a WWII database and debate would be pointless. You want to know something goto the “Wikipedia-like” WWII truth database and simply trust what it says blindly (as some do the literature of historians). But everyone knows that is not the case, so why the pretense? Why do I get pot shots when I refuse to pull off my hat and but it over my heart when someone quotes a “reliable” historian, that states something that contradicts common sense?

No, I have don't have the slightest idea if gestapo is telling the truth here or not but to the "historian-mongers" in the spirit of what he said, "tou-friggen-ché".