What If Germany As Won In Russia?

[Market_Garden1982]

What if, Hitler as gone for the oil fields and forget about stalingrad?
What if Germany "won" the war against Russia? Do you think Hitler and Germany would have lost the war?
What is your opinion?

mine is that Germany would have lost the war anyway because after all it was a matter of time, i mean what like canada goes crazy and went to invade U.S. ( ok that would be foolish as we would die before reaching the border ) but as the army resources goes thin ...they just can't keep going and going and going, i mean Canadian army can't hold like 300 million hangry people with guns.
I think the same would have happened to Germany anyway.

Now , i would like to have your opinion on the subjet

thanks Carl

[spidge]

Originally posted by Market_Garden1982@Jul 31 2005, 09:59 AM
What if, Hitler as gone for the oil fields and forget about stalingrad?
What if Germany "won" the war against Russia? Do you think Hitler and Germany would have lost the war?
What is your opinion?

mine is that Germany would have lost the war anyway because after all it was a matter of time, i mean what like canada goes crazy and went to invade U.S. ( ok that would be foolish as we would die before reaching the border ) but as the army resources goes thin ...they just can't keep going and going and going, i mean Canadian army can't hold like 300 million hangry people with guns.
I think the same would have happened to Germany anyway.

Now , i would like to have your opinion on the subjet

thanks Carl

Quoted post

The time frame may have altered however, IMHO (À mon avis honnête) the result would have been the same.

[Battleman]

My opinion is that the Russian people would have capitulated to the Germans and be conscripted to take the fight back into the west and Italy. Also remember the Japs were on the east of Russia also, so my guess is they would have taken some territory there also. Germany would have gained an almost unlimited supply of man power and resources. Oh and of course the T34 and PPsch

[Dac]

Originally posted by Market_Garden1982@Jul 30 2005, 04:59 PM
What if, Hitler as gone for the oil fields and forget about stalingrad?
What if Germany "won" the war against Russia? Do you think Hitler and Germany would have lost the war?
What is your opinion?

Quoted post

There were powerful Russian forces in Stalingrad as well as armament factories. These would have threatened the German flank if Von Paulus had pushed forward to the oil fields to the south.

I think once the German offensive in 1941 failed, any hope of a German victory on the Eastern Front ended. Like you said, there were too many Russians and too few Germans.

[MikB]

Originally posted by Dac@Aug 25 2005, 06:31 AM
I think once the German offensive in 1941 failed, any hope of a German victory on the Eastern Front ended. Like you said, there were too many Russians and too few Germans.

Quoted post

That matches my thoughts too, though perhaps as much because there was too much Russia as too many Russians.

When Hitler invaded, he could scarcely have picked a weaker moment for the Soviets - army still depleted intellectually as well as in leadership and experience after Stalin's purges, new weaponry only just feeding through to production. But even the succession of catastrophic defeats inflicted still left them vast spaces to withdraw into.

Once Stalin began listening to his generals - at about the same time as Hitler began to stop - the 'schwerpunkt' technique became a liability. Any deep penetration of Soviet defences would have invited encirclement, and even reinforced by allies the German army was just not big enough to cover all the perimeters for that in sufficient strength.

If it hadn't been Stalingrad, it would have been somewhere else.

Regards,
MikB

[Kaiser]

The one and most major mistake of the Nazis when they entered Russia was their decision not to come as liberators, but as oppressors. Had they came with the flag of freedom, within days, the entire russian population, which had suffered much under the Soviets, would surrender the the Germans and Stalin's head would be sitting on Hitler's desk.

With that, give them three terms to abide by, and let them rule on their own, over looked by a few German advisors. The terms are:

Build x tanks for Germany
Provide y troops for German Army
Build z planes for the Germans

Give them their freedom, and they will egearly agree. To them, whatever you give will probably be a thousand times better then what Stalin did. The result would be massive forces for your military and manpower unmatched. The Western allies will never build up the troops to beat both Russia and Germany.

[TheTotalWar]

Even though Stalingrad had armaments factories and Russia was as vast as the amount of people it had and all those other factors, Hitler could have taken Russia much more easily than people think. At the farthest the germans had gone, they reached the outskirts of Moscow, which was, at that time, home to the great leader Josef Stalin. With only one third of their invading forces, Germany was able to get to the outskirts of Moscow, imagine how easy it would have been with two thirds. Stalingrad and Leningrad didn't matter, whats the point of taking a city named after Stalin when you could just take Stalin himself?

Without their brutal dictator, the Russians would have been fighting for a lost cause. The capital city of Russia could have been taken, and the resulting collapse of Russian armed forces would have been inevitable. The country would have effectively been split in half at which time the germans would have been able to dive into Stalingrad and/or Leningrad with more concentrated forces than before, more or less breaking whatever was left of the Russian vodka-induced spirit and taking countless more captives than before.

The key to the victory in Moscow would have been timing. Should they have taken until the end of 1941 or even 1942 to take it, they would still have been able to been at an advantage against the Russian tank numbers, which would have soon halted. Once the main forces had mopped up the remaining strongpoints of Russia, they would then have been able to return to the fight in North Africa and surely have had the strength to beat back both the British and the Americans. D-Day would never have succeeded, and Germany would only have the internal problems to deal with.

Funnily enough, all of this would have been possible with the death of one man and to a lesser extent, the capture of a city.

What do you guys think?

[MikB]

(The Total War @ Oct 29 2005, 08:38 AM) [post=40764]
Funnily enough, all of this would have been possible with the death of one man and to a lesser extent, the capture of a city.

What do you guys think?
[/b]

Only if, as someone said before, all this had been achieved inside 1941. Once the Germans had been stalled for a winter, a decisive victory became impossible because Ivan didn't stop his buildup of hardware, he knew he could withstand both siege and debacle, and - worst of all - Stalin began to allow his senior staff to advise him.

To have completed it inside 1941 would have meant starting earlier and abandoning the Italians in the Med and the desert. If they'd done that, even if they'd succeeded in Russia by early '42, it's anybody's guess whether they could've turned round the expulsion from Africa and probable collapse in southern Europe.

Regards,
MikB

[bartsch]

Had Germany defeated Russia they would have won the war most likely. Had they not attacked Russia they would have won most definatly. But since Hitler was an idiot and dropped out of school he never had history and would have known the Russians would do the same to him as they did to Napoleon. Winter > All. But in WW2 there is so much speculation on many things, that at some points it comes down to a "yes" or "no" decision. Could have gone either way, really.

[Kiwiwriter]

Total War, let me not be remiss...welcome to the boards!