Stereotypes About The Red Army And Russia

[spidge]

Originally Posted by stalin

you what???
every joke should have it's limits.

If you think I am joking you are sadly mistaken.

[von Poop]

No spidge, Surely they built their rails from exclusively Soviet steel?? You don't mean some of the 22,000 tons that Owen mentioned In just ONE convoy could concievably have proved useful?? Surely Stalin himself stacked it in a pile marked 'Evil Western Steel' and didn't use it for tanks, trucks, infrastructure, small arms, artillery, ammunition, tools, spare parts, equipment, aircraft or any other necessities. In fact I bet it's still there. Rusting away.... Damn it's capitalist ferrousness.


(I'm still most impressed by 35,170 motorcycles supplied. I'd love to see and hear 35,170 1940's military bikes all starting up at the same time...)

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Von Poop

No spidge, Surely they built their rails from exclusively Soviet steel?? You don't mean some of the 22,000 tons that Owen mentioned In just ONE convoy could concievably have proved useful?? Surely Stalin himself stacked it in a pile marked 'Evil Western Steel' and didn't use it for tanks, trucks, infrastructure, small arms, artillery, ammunition, tools, spare parts, equipment, aircraft or any other necessities. In fact I bet it's still there. Rusting away.... Damn it's capitalist ferrousness.


(I'm still most impressed by 35,170 motorcycles supplied. I'd love to see and hear 35,170 1940's military bikes all starting up at the same time...)

I thought 66 fully assembled Locomotives was quite impressive.

[Za Rodinu]

Originally Posted by Owen D

I'm posting this again on this thread to ram the fact home.
Here is an example of PQ convoy. In January of 1944, an American lend-lease convoy left Seattle bound for Vladivostok. Its manifest read as follows:

46 merchantmen (all 8-10K ton ships)...

Very interesting, what did you use for source for these figures? Apparently this Pacific Coast to Vladivostok route was numerically the most important of all Lend Lease routes. And totally risk free as the ships were under the Soviet flag so the Japanese would not touch them! I find it most tragic that so many lives were lost in the Murmansk route, mainly for appearances sake!

Just in case anyone wonders, I am not another persona for a certain recently banned person

[spidge]

Are you of the opinion that the effort was in vain or the numbers delivered of little importance?

[Za Rodinu]

No, what I think is that considering that the Persian and Vladivostok routes being available as alternatives, and that these were minimum or no risk, I find the reasons for maintaining the North Atlantic route and consequent loss of life questionable.

routes: http://www.o5m6.de/routes.html

quantities: http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...ents/index.htm

[plant-pilot]

If it was the case that the Pacific route was safer, it does seem logical to question the reason for maintaining the very dangerous and costly North Atlantic route.

They could include distance, transport difficulties from Vladivostok to the 'Western Front', limited shipping in the pacific, ability to combine shipping for the USA, UK and USSR routes and probably others.

I'm not too familiar with the restrictions or lack of them with Pacific shipping and trade routes, but if anyone does know I would be interested to find out.

[Za Rodinu]

Well, at least the North Atlantic route would be the most direct for British and Eastern seaboard US and Canadian supplies, due to the urgency in getting supplies to the Soviets it seemed worth the risk. Also the amount of escort means put at disposal meant that the Allied Navies were more than willing to guarantee that the most supplies would be delivered with the least loss, so I'm not condemning anyone.

[Za Rodinu]

By the way, this reminds me of a novel I read in the past, The Ship by C.S.Forester, of Horatio Hornblower fame, written in 1943.

The book tells of a Murmansk run on a fictional AA cruiser, and it is so pungent that I never had the gut to read it again. No better depiction of the sacrifice!

[plant-pilot]

I'll have to look that one up, do you know the ISBN?