| | #1 (permalink) |
| Ostfront is where its at! ![]() Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,660
![]() ![]() ![]() | David Glantz, in his paper American Perspectives on Eastern Front Operations in World War II puts forth the theory that the following sterotypes prevailed about the Red Army and the Eastern Front. Do you agree and also do you think some of these still exist? Here is the link to the whole article: http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/e-front.htm Here is a part of the paper dealing with the stereotypes. I'd be interested to read what people think: The dominant role of German source materials in shaping American perceptions of the war on the Eastern Front and the negative perception of Soviet source materials have had an indelible impact on the American image of war on the Eastern Front. What has resulted in a series of gross judgments treated as truths regarding operations in the East and Soviet (Red) Army combat performance. The gross judgments appear repeatedly in textbooks and all types of historical works, and they are persistent in the extreme. Each lies someplace between the realm of myth and reality. In summary, a few of these judgments are as follows: - Weather repeatedly frustrated the fulfillment of German operational aims. - Soviet forces throughout the war in virtually every operation possessed significant or overwhelming numerical superiority. - Soviet manpower resources were inexhaustible, hence the Soviets continually ignored human losses. - Soviet strategic and high level operational leadership was superb. However, lower level leadership (corps and below) was uniformly dismal. - Soviet planning was rigid, and the execution of plans at every level was inflexible and unimaginative. - Wherever possible, the Soviets relied for success on mass rather than maneuver. Envelopment operations were avoided whenever possible. - The Soviets operated in two echelons, never cross attached units, and attacked along straight axes. - Lend lease was critical for Soviet victory. Without it collapse might have ensured. - Hitler was the cause of virtually all German defeats. Army expertise produced earlier victories (a variation of the post World War I stab in the back. legend). - The stereotypical Soviet soldier was capable of enduring great suffering and hardship, fatalistic, dogged in defense (in particular in bridgeheads), a master of infiltration and night fighting, but inflexible, unimaginative, emotional and prone to panic in the face of uncertainty.
__________________ "The Eastern front is like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point all the rest will collapse." - General Heinz Guderian "With amazement and disappointment, we discovered in late October and early November that the beaten Russians seemed quite unaware that as a military force they had almost ceased to exist." - General Blumentritt "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen me fight so hard." Lieutenant General Wilhelm Bittrich - Commander of II SS Panzer Korps - (Commenting on the British Paratroopers at Arnhem) - September 1944 "Had Clark given more heed to Juin's views...the savage battles of Cassino would probably never have been fought and the venerable house of St Benedict would have been unscathed" Rudolf Böhmler - 1st Fallschirmjäger Division - 1944 (After the bombing of Monte Cassino) |
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| Per Ardua Ad Astra ![]() Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,945
![]() | I agree with the sterotypes you have mentioned Gotthard and I would still say that a few of the still exist, notably the ones about numerical superiority and manpower resources.
__________________ ![]() "Never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few" Sir Winston Chuchill, Summer 1940 "To him the people of Britain and the free world owe largely the way of life they enjoy today" Ensciption on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-1940) Statue in London Aircraft of World War 2 Forum - A Warbird Forum |
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| | #3 (permalink) |
| Senior Member ![]() Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 120
![]() | Some of the stereotypes have merit others not so much. -Weather did play a role in the halt of the German advance in 1941, and there's no question that the Soviets were much better prepared to deal with the sometimes harsh Russian climate. -Soviet manpower was not unlimited they were facing shortages in maintaining the 300+ divisions on the eastern front at the end of the war. -The Soviets lacked an experinced Officer Corps at the start of WW II due to Stalins' purges. By the end of the war the Soviets had some very experienced and capable officers. -I think the Soviets often did take a brute force approach to battle and this is reflected in their high causualties. They were also fighting against the most effective army in the world at that time. -Some aspects of lend-lease were a great help to the Soviets in WW II, notably the modern communcations equipment and large number of transport trucks sent from the West. -I've read accounts of German soldiers who were impressed at the stoicism show by Russian soldiers at Stalingrad. When hit they often made no sound, and either waited for medical aid or died quietly.
__________________ "Retreat Hell! We're just attacking in a different direction." (Major General Oliver P. Smith USMC responding to reporters when asked why the 1st Marines were withdrawing from the Chosin Reservoir, December 1950.) |
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| | #4 (permalink) | |
| Member ![]() Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brighton
Posts: 84
![]() | Quote:
__________________ BESSIE BRADDOCK: Winston you are drunk. WINSTON CHURCHILL: Mrs Braddock you are ugly, but in the morning I will be sober. | |
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| | #5 (permalink) | |||
| Senior Member ![]() Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 120
![]() | Quote:
__________________ "Retreat Hell! We're just attacking in a different direction." (Major General Oliver P. Smith USMC responding to reporters when asked why the 1st Marines were withdrawing from the Chosin Reservoir, December 1950.) | |||
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| | #6 (permalink) | |
| Legendary Member ![]() Join Date: May 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,049
![]() ![]() | [quote=Dac,Sep 16 2005, 05:37 AM] [ Quote:
http://www.o5m6.de/main.html P.S. I wonder if Zhukov is presently doing his "National Training"?
__________________ Spidge, ![]() ------------------------------------------------------- My Avatar is the memorial to the 22 Commonwealth Coastwatchers at the Temakin Cemetery on Betio (Tarawa Atoll) who were beheaded by the Japanese on 15th October 1942. http://www.dva.gov.au/media/publicat...mem_beito.html "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war." (Winston Churchill made this prophetic pronouncement in a House of Commons speech in 1938, just after Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich agreement with Hitler. Chamberlain returned from Germany with the signed agreement in hand, proclaiming that "peace in our time" had been achieved. Churchill attacked Chamberlain's "politics of appeasement" in this and many other speeches.) What did the Australians do in ww2 and other conflicts? Check out this site: http://www.diggerhistory.info/00-pag...ster-index.htm | |
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| | #8 (permalink) |
| Senior Member ![]() Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 120
![]() | Very nice find spidge. ![]()
__________________ "Retreat Hell! We're just attacking in a different direction." (Major General Oliver P. Smith USMC responding to reporters when asked why the 1st Marines were withdrawing from the Chosin Reservoir, December 1950.) |
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| | #9 (permalink) |
| Per Ardua Ad Astra ![]() Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,945
![]() | Yes, good find spidge, amazing the variety of vehicles that was set to the USSR durings Lead-Lease.
__________________ ![]() "Never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few" Sir Winston Chuchill, Summer 1940 "To him the people of Britain and the free world owe largely the way of life they enjoy today" Ensciption on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-1940) Statue in London Aircraft of World War 2 Forum - A Warbird Forum |
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| | #10 (permalink) |
| Senior Member ![]() Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Singapore
Posts: 318
![]() | Nice sites spidge,... But i can't found any sherman thereI thought Shermans were part of the package as well.,... am not too sure where is this sherman roaming,.. but i was thought this was part of russian crewed sherman.
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