WW2 resulted in a Cold War

[T34]

ok, lets face the truth, the issue of who won in ww2 is not the matter of figures, historical facts etc., but the matter of pure mythology.
for instance, to me its quite clear that russia won.
on another hand, if we consider ww2 as only an introduction for a cold war that soon followed, then [taking into account the split-up of soviet union] america is a victor.
after all, any country/society is based upon a myths, so let this thread be dedicated to "mythological" sort of discussion, where any kind of jingoism or blatant rhetoric would be welcomed.

[Gage]

Why did Stalin put so much pressure on the Western allies to start the second front?!
This is another thread on the Eastern front and how the Russians won WWII single handedly, it's becoming tiresome.
Not only that but it belittles the losses on the Western front, I find it distasteful.

[plant-pilot]

Originally Posted by T34

ok, lets face the truth, the issue of who won in ww2 is not the matter of figures, historical facts etc., but the matter of pure mythology.
for instance, to me its quite clear that russia won.
on another hand, if we consider ww2 as only an introduction for a cold war that soon followed, then [taking into account the split-up of soviet union] america is a victor.
after all, any country/society is based upon a myths, so let this thread be dedicated to "mythological" sort of discussion, where any kind of jingoism or blatant rhetoric would be welcomed.

That is of course assuming that a country (or union of countries), that had to oppress not only the people of other countries of the Warsaw Pact but also it's own people for the next 50 years, has actually 'won' anything.

[Owen]

Look at the industrial and finacial success of Japan (helped by US money)
They won the War! British Industry is dead. We have a huge HONDA plant here in Swindon.
So I say JAPAN won.

Come on! The way they constantly veto anything we want or need in the EU, it has to be France and Germany who won!

[plant-pilot]

Originally Posted by mosquito617

Come on! The way they constantly veto anything we want or need in the EU, it has to be France and Germany who won!

So that's why the French have the 'Arch de Triumph'! I always wondered.

[von Poop]

Thinking about it I reckon I'm with Owen, despite their current troubles Japan is probably the nation that emerged from ww2 having made the most positive advances from Americas generous (and I think wise) support.
Funny old world.

Myths, incidentally, are not falsehoods, but are merely things unverifiable.

The US adhered to and still does adhere to the Marshall Plan doctrine/philosphy in which if you allow nations lie in ruin, their natural path is to return to war out of survival. Ignoring their plight or exacerbating it in any way is akin to declaring war on them.

Despite the horrors and attrocities of WWII, you have to separate the ideals of Hitler with the dire economic situation of Germany to realize they were destined to war. Hitler was simply an opportunist. This is why I have to divorce his ideals from those of the Germans in general and don't view Germans nor Nazis as the wicked idealist he and his band were. Knowing so many Germans, I have no doubt that Patton was right in saying the Nazis were simply a political party, not unlike the ones we have today. It was Hitler's absolute power mixed with his insane idealism that has unfortunately become the symbolism of Nazism. The people responsible were not simply party members but those that bought into idealism unchecked. While this was more than just a handful it was certainly not the whole lot.

Originally the Nazis were formed to become a political power to reform the German economy. That was their true idealism which is in and of itself noble. The situation that the Treaty of Versailles left them in, having torn away their industrial sector in the Saarland, divided up parts of their country forming Czech. And forcing war reparations on an economy in collapse was a good part of why Hitler managed to gain his power. In any other situation he would have been dismissed as insane or an extremist, but for a country that was literally starving to death, hope, any kind of hope, was desired.

I have always believed that losing a war is usually sufficient punishment in and of itself. If you push it too far, you are going to have repercussions. This was why I held the position of promoting the rememberance of the Holocaust was extremely risky. It is not that I beleive such an attrocity should be swept away but it must be tempered lest people not responsible are indicted for something they never supported or would have allowed. People can only be humiliated so far. As the bible says, in victory remember mercy. Sometimes you will be stabbed in the back for your kindness, but that is the price of doing the right thing.

It was logical that the US do that. They suffered the least as a nation from the destruction of the war. This mercy applied to Japan as well as Germany. The USSR on the other hand did not have mercy. They learned nothing from WWI. Their idea was to enslave the Germans and starve them to death (ex: the blockade of Berlin). That with the enslavement of Eastern Europe into communism and totalitarianism was the beginning of what is affectionately referred to as the Cold War.

The end of WWII could have been a new era in the future and relationship of the nations as Russia could have established a trade relationship with the West like Japan and Germany did. But the Russians had designs on world conquest as communism must take possessions and lives of others to feed its unquenchable appetite as a consumer and destroyer of the wealth and value of humanity. That is not a choice made by Communism and Socialism it is the very nature of it and inherent at that.

Contrary to what people believe, it was never the Soviet people that the US vilified, it is Communism and its pupate stage we commonly refer to as Socialism whose childishly naive idealism of portraying itself as the savior of mankind from life’s economic challenges that is always, by its nature and definition destined to be the destroyer and consumer of mankind. Communism/Socialism exploits the young, inexperienced, idealistic or desperate to create for its own survival, slaves, in which it consumes the souls of its victims for its persistence until it leads them into a state of desperate existence where the very humanity is driven out of them. In this destined and debase state, you see the worst of mankind and their only hope is to prevent them from getting into that state or complete implosion of their society from which one hopes the seeds of humanity spring up in their place.

Who then cannot look at the lives of the people of China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, over the years and not see the deadness in their eyes, the desperation to escape these lands, and not realize that it had nothing to do with geography, resources, etc? If it did, then Britain would have been the most communist and socialist society on the earth because they are so limited in natural resources being an island. Though not always so noble, Britain’s history is nobler in that they have spread democratic ideals throughout the world beginning with the Magna Charta, ideals whose seeds led either directly or indirectly to the existence of the true civilization and democracies of the United States, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, et al. These two contrasted sets of ideals being diametrically opposite are so consistent in bearing their respective fruit, and serve as lessons that beg to be forgotten by the next generation who seem destined to relearn them in some brutal and lamentable way.

Every nation learns technology from every war, how to wage war better, how to be less vulnerable, yet the real lessons of wars, the fundamentals of idealisms and the ultimate price they must pay in such an egregious tuition, are soon forgotten within one single generation. So the questions of why there is war and tyranny must be asked perpetually generation after generation ad infinitum.

Some of you in your evaluation of my motives were always wrong. It was never about the hatred for a people but rather the disdain for an ideal that spreads like the bubonic plague, until it can spread no more, leaving in its wake the destroyed lives and misery of countless people, stealing their hopes, their joys, the rights, their reason for living, all for the self-serving and perverted pleasure of the idealism itself. Contrary to what you thought, accusing me of bigotry did not pain me but rather invoked sadness in that yet another generation and yet another zealot, doesn’t get it, doesn’t understand the fundamentals of freedom and rather exalts this hideous idealism to the point of evangelism, ignoring and masking the sorrowful lessons of the generations that I have just mentioned.

[morse1001]

if we consider ww2 as only an introduction for a cold war that soon followed,

Richard nixon said that WW3 began on the 9th May 1945. the Soviet desire to expand its empire, made confrontation between the former allies inevitable.

The first major "cold war" was the "Police action" of korea, where it is now known that Stalin ordered it to begin and controled. Kim il Sun was only a puppet of the Soviet union.

[morse1001]

Communism/Socialism exploits the young, inexperienced, idealistic or desperate to create for its own survival, slaves, in which it consumes the souls of its victims for its persistence until it leads them into a state of desperate existence where the very humanity is driven out of them.

that is a very good summing up of the communist ideologey at work. But do not forget that the same tactics were used by the Far right parties as well.