Paris 1940 & 1944

[jacobtowne]

According to my information, the French 2nd AD was part of Gen. Gerow's V Corps, First Army (Hodge). The 2nd AD was assisted in the attack on Paris by Gen. Raymond Barton's 4th Infantry Division, also part of V Corps.

The American unit in the victory parade in Paris on Aug. 29th was the 28th Infantry Division of First Army.

JT

[4th wilts]

oh i see.so was this corps not ordered north then.yours,lee.

[Arsenal vg-33]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

sounds about right.was that corps not ordered north to block germans escaping falaise.yours,lee.

The Falaise Gap was closed on the 21st of August, Paris was entered afterwards on the 24th. Also, if you look at a map you'll see that the Falaise-Argentan region is due west of Paris, not North. By the time Paris was entered, the Falaise Gap fighting was pretty much a done deal.

[4th wilts]

back up a bit.the corps that leclerc was in was ordered northwards to block the remnants of 5 german divs from escaping the closing gap.they did not.afraid of friendly fire from canadian 1st army advancing south, apparently.yours,lee.

[Arsenal vg-33]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

back up a bit.the corps that leclerc was in was ordered northwards to block the remnants of 5 german divs from escaping the closing gap.they did not.afraid of friendly fire from canadian 1st army advancing south, apparently.yours,lee.

That remains a controversial point in the Normandy campaign. Eisenhower was indeed worried about running two armies into eachother. Some have even insinuated this was Leclerc's fault. However, I did find this exerpt from Bill Yenne's excellent book, "Operation Cobra and the Great Offensive"

"Despite the staggering losses suffered by the Germans, the fact that so many survived to fight later is a controversial point in Allied military history.

In retrospect, it seems obvious that the Americans could have closed the Falaise Gap on their own on or about Wednesday, August 16, had Genral Bradley not ordered a halt. *

As General George Patton said, "This halt was a great mistake as I was certain that we could have entered Falaise and I was not certain that the British would. As a matter of fact, we had reconnaissance parties near the town [Falaise] when we were ordered to pull back"."

(Pgs. 149-150)

*italics are mine

[4th wilts]

it was bradley,s folly ,the chance to stop 5 panzer divs or what remained of them.bradley later lamented,those troops were green.ireckon he was too conservative.dont worry i wont call him a ,you know what.yours,lee.

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

it was bradley,s folly ,the chance to stop 5 panzer divs or what remained of them.bradley later lamented,those troops were green.ireckon he was too conservative.dont worry i wont call him a ,you know what.yours,lee.

Well who was in overall command at that time, Monty or Ike? that is who the folly lies with. Personally I think it is too easy to say that it was someone's fault. Hindsight is a great Critic and I wonder if we were in Monty or Ike's shoes would we have done as well. The fact remained that the Germans as an Army were finished in France and Falaise ensured that there would be no repeat of the First World War nor would there be the problems of forcing river crossings. When Hitler ordered the attack towards Mortain he handed the Allies the keys to France.

[von Poop]

I always feel that in this old debate about the closing of the pocket and the apportioning of 'blame' not enough credit is given to the sheer fighting ability of some of those German units that held the neck of the bag apart at the end. While I don't subscribe to the 'Nazi elite' point of view I have to concede that there were some of the most experienced soldiers in the world at that time fighting from within the pocket and despite the completely shattered state of their overall military situation they managed some surprising feats of arms with very little.

[4th wilts]

so would you not agree that bradley/or patton should have blocked that experienced avalanche,when history shows that they could have with at least a corps.yours,lee.

[Owen]

Can we take this debate to a Falaise Pocket thread please and leave this one to Paris itself.
Thank You.