Living under German occupation or under Vichy

[angie999]

Well, time somebody started this board off.

Obviously, the French "home front" meant living under the direct rule of the Germans or, at least until November 1942, for some of the French living under Vichy.

Particularly in many smaller rural communities, the physical German presence was minimal, yet life was hard, there were shortages and there were many petty restrictions.

Only a minority took part in resistance and of that minority, quite a small percentage were part of it before 1944.

The reality was, then, survival under occupation and in the aftermath of defeat.

So who wants to look in more detail at aspects of resistance and survival in wartime France?

[Danmark]

During the Occupation of France, German soldiers were forbidden to loot and steal from any French Citizens, they also had strict orders to be respectfull to all French Citizens. Look at pictures of German soldiers in Paris, there buying soveniers and helping carry bundles for old ladies. The German High Command wanted the people of France to see that the Germans were good people and that they were respectfull. The French Resistance was a small element in the country and often had to depend on stolen/surplus supplies and supplies airdropped in by the RAF.
Not everyone in France was a member of the French Resistance but they would help them in many cases, such as hiding them or giving them food.

[angie999]

I have a small volume of Picasso prints produced in France during WWII. Don't get carried away, it is in poor condition and isn't worth a lot.

It did make me think, though, about how a foreigner (Spanish), of his politican views (member of the Communist Party for a time after WWII) and modernist of the art world, out of favour with the Germans and Vichy could survive in wartime France. I don't know how rich he was then and these prints may have been a way of raising money to live on.

[julien]

Originally posted by angie999@May 16 2004, 06:31 PM
Only a minority took part in resistance and of that minority, quite a small percentage were part of it before 1944.

Actually, a lot of people "entered" in Résistance two minutes before the UK or the US troops entered in a town ! We call them "the résistants of the last hour..." But the "true" résistants agents kept in the shadow and didn't really talk about their fights during german occupation.

This periode is very dark for french people cause to the governement of Vichy and the "collaboration"... The epuration of 1944/45 stays also in the memory...

French population is actually discovering the true story 60 years after... and hot discusses started !!

cheers,

[angie999]

Originally posted by julien@Jun 14 2004, 08:39 AM

French population is actually discovering the true story 60 years after... and hot discusses started !!

On a visit to the la Coupole V2 site on the outskirts of St Omer a while back, I was impressed by the amount of books on sale about the wartime years in the Nord-Pas de Calais region. Very few if any have been translated for sale in the English speaking world. It does make you realise what a big topic it has become in France.

[BeppoSapone]

Originally posted by julien@Jun 14 2004, 03:39 AM


This periode is very dark for french people cause to the governement of Vichy and the "collaboration"... The epuration of 1944/45 stays also in the memory...

I read that both Maurice Chevalier and Coco Chanel collaborated with the Germans, and that Chanel even had to go to Switzerland for a short time to escape reprisals after liberation.

However, I read this on the internet, so I do not know how accurate the information is. Can anyone confirm, or deny, it?

[BeppoSapone]

Originally posted by julien@Jun 14 2004, 03:39 AM


This periode is very dark for french people cause to the governement of Vichy and the "collaboration"... The epuration of 1944/45 stays also in the memory...

I suspect that the Vichy Regime was, in many ways, harsh.

I have relatives who are French, and lived then in the Lyon area. I have read some letters that they wrote to the English branch of the family in the early part of the war. These letters, which came via the Red Cross, say nothing much really.

Although letters they remind me of the cards soldiers sent home - the kind where they crossed out what did not apply. I am well, I am sick etc etc

[julien]

Few weeks ago, I have spoken with a woman for was a Resistant agent and who was send at Ravensbruck. Today she still angry only against the Vichy's police who arrested her and tortured her very badly. After this, they send her to the Germans. It was like a civil war, french people who fought with french people... At the museum in Tourcoing, we have a letter of a man who wrote : "My neightbour XXX hide a GB parachutist and the night, they both go out to murder germans..." During the war, if you didn't like your neightbour or your child's teacher, you could write a letter to gestapo or the Vichy's police and denounced him. It was very terrible. And it was the same at the Liberation, a lot of men or women were denounced like "collorateur" by error et were punished by wild trials !!

[Lillin]

I'm still learning alot about the war, particularly in Britain, and have since started to look into more about what life was like in France. I'm by no means an expert, so I'm glad I found this thread.

If I understand correctly, the Vichy kind of "sided" with Germany, while the rest was occupied. I would love to no more about what was gained by the Vichy, and what people would do to ensure it thrived.

Were people more willing to work with Germany in hopes to save lives after the devastating losses they suffered during the first war?

I recently saw a movie called Charlotte Gray, with Cate Blanchett. She played a British Spy in France. The movie portryed the Vichy as real scoundrels, doing almost anything to appease German superiors? Is this an accurate description?

I'd love to know more about this. Any input you guys and gals had would be greatly appreciated and enjoyed. Thank you.

[Harry Ree]

This is an interesting thread.It is difficult to have any discussion about the Vichy regime without mentioning Petain.

The German occupation of France was brutal even though the Vichy regime was more than sympathetic to the Germans.Indeed Petain in a speech made after meeting Hitler at Montoire on the Loire in October 1940 said "I am today setting out along the road of collaboration".This was not enough for the Nazi as the Vichy regime had to meet the occupation bill of having German troops in France.Additionally young men and women were rounded up and transported to Germany as forced labour. French industry was harnessed by the Hitler, turning out vast amounts of war material.The reason why the leading car manufacturer,
Renault had his business requisitioned by De Gaulle, post war, was that Renault was an economic collaborator.

The best documentary to accompany any reading is Marcel Ophuls classsic documentary "The Sorrow and the Pity".Set in the town of Clermont Ferrand in the Auvergne, the documentary relates the life of the French under the German occupation.The resistance,the Vichy Milce,the German occupation troops from November 1942 and the ordinary citizen is on stage.

Marechal Petain openly wished for a German victory and saw the future of France lying with Hitler and his Greater Germany.Vichy France did more than appease the anti semitic policy of the Nazis and was a willing partner in rounding up the Jews and transporting them to the death camps.This man was not the same man who gave victory to the French at Verdun and is the reason he lies on the Ile d' Yeu and not alongside his fallen army at Verdun.

It is a fact that the rate of French joining the Milice and other Vichy organisations did not decline even after the Normandy invasions. Some citzens would say that they were always members of the resistance from the early days of the occupation.It inevitable that people would want to be associated with the winning side and profess their past loyality.However it was the resistance, this small number which De Gaulle motivated and co-ordinated,the Allies armed and DeGaulle's involvement and claim to represent the true interests of France that resulted in France being a liberated country and not an occupied enemy country.