P/O G V McKay FAA

[adrian roberts]

This is one of the names on the Memorial Plaque in my church, St John the Baptist, West Wickham, Kent.

I looked him up on the CWGC website. He was Petty Officer George Vincent McKay; he died on 14/9/39 -so only just after the war started, tragically -aged 24, and he was serving on HMS Ark Royal. He is commemorated on the Lee-on-Solent memorial for Fleet Air Arm personnel with no known graves.

As far as I know Ark Royal was not in action at that time of the war, so presumably he died in an accident. Do any of you have any knowledge of such an event at this date?

I couldn't decide whether this belonged in the Air or Sea sub-forum so I put it in General!

Adrian

[Kyt]

He was an Observer on Skua (L2957) which attacked U-30, and was killed when their own bomb damaged their aircraft and crashed:

uboat.net - Allied Ships hit by U-boats - Fanad Head (Steam merchant)

[Kyt]

This was painted by Griffiths (McKay's pilot) of their attack:

The SS Fanad Head incident

[spidge]

This U-30 seemed to have led a charmed life during the war.

uboat.net - Boats - U-30

[adrian roberts]

Kyt and Spidge

Thanks for this. Quite a result! Not that a person's death is more acceptable if he dies in a dramatic incident than a mundane one, but certainly it becomes very interesting.

A couple of points from the story:

I wonder if the low-level bombing training flights they must have done had highlighted the dangers of explosions from their own bombs damaging the aircraft? Would they have practised with live bombs at that height? And given that the two surviving pilots became prisoners and could not warn their comrades about what had happened, how long did it take the Navy to realise the problem? The second of three Skuas returned with shrapnel damage; I wonder if this was enough warning for the future.

And it's interesting that the U-boat commander Leth was still showing chivalry at that time of the war, notwithstanding the torpedoing of City of Benares for which these websites seem to be at pains to excuse him. He allowed the occupants of Fanad Head to take to the boats and directed them to safety (this would have been impossible if attacking a convoy); he went out of his way to take aboard the two Skua pilots while under attack from their comrades and treated them well, and then had enough respect for his own men to make a detour to Iceland to land one seriously injured man.

I've bookmarked the Dingle website; must read more of it. Of course I could probably have found out about McKay by Googling rather than asking you all on this site, but if we never asked each other stuff we wouldn't have a forum!

However I used Lost Bombers to find out about a couple of other men commemorated in our church. On the same plaque as McKay is the name of Flt Lt (Harry) Charles Shaw Page. I knew from local historians that he was the son of the then vicar, the Rev John Shaw Page DSO. From Lost Bombers I established that he was a victim of the Avro Manchester. He was pilot of L7396 on a raid on Brest on 31/1/42. A long over-water flight must have been particularly daunting in an aircraft with unreliable engines that needed both of them working to stay airborne. A radio distress call was the last that was heard from that aircraft. Charles Shaw Page is buried on the Isles of Scilly where his body was washed up; the rest of the crew have no known grave.

Buried in the Churchyard itself is Sgt A W Loveland, Flight Engineer. He died in the crash of Stirling LJ518 of 199 Bomber Support Squadron, on 25/9/44 near Sculthorpe, Norfolk. They hit trees while descending through cloud returning from a Mandrel operation. (What was Mandrel? Window? Radar-jamming?).

There are other graves that I must investigate some time.

Adrian

[Kyt]

Adrian,

in this mission the Skuas were inappropriately used (IMO) because the description of the attacks seem to indicate low-level 'normal' bombing runs whereas the Skua was intended as a dive bomber. The bombing characteristics of the two are completely different. But dive bombing a submarine which is so close to a friendly ship would probably not have been possible.

The U-boat commander certainly ssemed to be of the 'old school' of the KM.

Interesting information on the other two chaps. Mandrel was a form of radio jamming system that was used to interfer with German radar, and sort of create a 'noise' screen to block location of other bombers following the jamming aircraft.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by adrian roberts

Kyt and Spidge

Buried in the Churchyard itself is Sgt A W Loveland, Flight Engineer. He died in the crash of Stirling LJ518 of 199 Bomber Support Squadron, on 25/9/44 near Sculthorpe, Norfolk. They hit trees while descending through cloud returning from a Mandrel operation. (What was Mandrel? Window? Radar-jamming?).

There are other graves that I must investigate some time.

Adrian

Now I have all dates for RAAF deaths, I noticed a death on that day of a RAAF Fl/Sgt who was flying with 199sq.

His sheet gives him as dying at Saxthorpe Village Norfolk and buried at Cambridge City Cemetery.

http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/awm108/019/019023.pdf

SAVAGE, RICHARD THOMAS PERCIVAL
Flight Sergeant
425365
199sq
25/09/1944
22

Any info Kyt?

[Kyt]

Spidge,

Savage was on the same flight as Loveland (LJ518).

The entire crew were:

P/O F.R.Chatwin KIA
Sgt A.W.Loveland KIA
Fl/Sgt R.T.P.Savage RAAF KIA
Fl/Sgt C.S.Henderson RNZAF KIA
Sgt R.C.Saddler KIA
F/O L.A.Barham KIA
Sgt P.O.Roberts KIA
Sgt J.W.Naylor KIA

Barham was the specialsit Mandrel operator.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Kyt

Spidge,

Savage was on the same flight as Loveland (LJ518).

The entire crew were:

P/O F.R.Chatwin KIA
Sgt A.W.Loveland KIA
Fl/Sgt R.T.P.Savage RAAF KIA
Fl/Sgt C.S.Henderson RNZAF KIA
Sgt R.C.Saddler KIA
F/O L.A.Barham KIA
Sgt P.O.Roberts KIA
Sgt J.W.Naylor KIA

Barham was the specialist Mandrel operator.

Thanks Kyt,

Looked a bit coincidental.