poland invaded again ?

[raf]

i was wonderig the other day


when the russians advanced and they reached poland. had the Germans not made any stop lines to stop the russian onslaught.

there must have been some from the previous german invasion.

did the germans not have any reserves to send to poland again or even use the old guys rather than leave it to late

thanks

[kfz]

Originally Posted by raf

i was wonderig the other day


when the russians advanced and they reached poland. had the Germans not made any stop lines to stop the russian onslaught.

there must have been some from the previous german invasion.

did the germans not have any reserves to send to poland again or even use the old guys rather than leave it to late

thanks

The 2nd soviet invasion of Poland?

Yes, but they eventually didnt work.

Not really. Axis had overcommited. Bad tactical employment often against the wishes of local generals meant that often no reserves where held. Tend to think of tactics being only employed in advance but from 1943 onward the Germans fought very well defenesivly, (when they where allowed to that is). Its very hard to fight defensive battles, have to be very clever. You have to effectivly guess what the enemy will do, the Germans where very good at it, espeically against British and Soviet textbook peices.

Big static defensive lines are useless, Some would sat in the face of Bliztcreig style tactics, but the history of warfare has shown that big strategic defence lines done work. Never have.

HTH

Kev

[raf]

thanks kev.

but the big strategic defence line would have provided time for the germans.

i saw on uk history that the fighting within berlin was costly for both the germans and the russians. why did the germans old these men back and not sent them to poland before the russians got to germany

thanks

[deadb_tch]

Originally Posted by raf

thanks kev.

but the big strategic defence line would have provided time for the germans.

i saw on uk history that the fighting within berlin was costly for both the germans and the russians. why did the germans old these men back and not sent them to poland before the russians got to germany

Send who? Volksturm or Hitlerjugend? Or that messed up Wehrmacht or SS units? Germans have forces in Poland when USSR moved there in 2nd time but that forces were weak when compared to soviet forces and also they've already fighting in west with allies. They can olny slow down soviet movement but nothing else. This was terrible fate to germans - fight without any chance to win. But they did such fate it by themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong.

PS: sorry for some lyrical shade in my post, late night comes not alone

[kfz]

Originally Posted by raf

thanks kev.

but the big strategic defence line would have provided time for the germans.

i saw on uk history that the fighting within berlin was costly for both the germans and the russians. why did the germans old these men back and not sent them to poland before the russians got to germany

thanks

Ok forgetting the fact it wouldnt work anyway.

Its takes time to set up a defence line, carefull preperation with defence in depth not just breadth. this takes time to set up, so what would have to happen is that you have planned retreat giving you time to set up the defence. normally you pull back your solid defensive formation while leaving a much smaller delaying mobile guard behind to slow the enemy. Giving you time to dig in to you new defence line with your main troops. Hitler would permit no retreat. This is what I was getting at earler about the complexity of defence, you have to give ground to take it back and hitler just could not see it and would permit no retreat. They where not allowed to create a viable defence.

Why where the volkstrum not sent out? Apart from the sheer logistical problem of sending what where basically civilians to the front.

They where a last ditch effort, old men and boys.The reason they faught was because they where defending their homes. Not fighting for Poland..

I cant remember where I was reading about corect defensive tactics of putting your real defense line 3 miles behind the front. When the attack starts pulling your men back from the front allowing the enemy to bombard the empty non-fortifications, prior to taking them. Let them take them .Then counter attack the now unpreperaed attacking force, with no defenisive positions, completly destroying them.

Its all clever stuff, big static lines of defence are useless when your enemy has time and overwhelming numbers able to flank your line. More of a hinderance than a help.


Kev

[raf]

thanks kev.

i was reading that if hitler had retreated and re-armed much closer to germany for the supply line etc then there might have been a stale mate for some time