the US & UK merely assisted Russia in WW2

[T-34]

'

...thus the victor in WW2 was Russia -
meanwhile the US and UK were merely a help providers.
agreed ?





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[A Potts]

Originally Posted by T-34

so the victor in WW2 was Russia -
meanwhile the US and UK were merely help providers.
agreed ?

T-34 let's get one issue out of the way. World War Two was fought on two fronts - namely Europe and Asia (Pacific). Did Russia (Soviet Union) win the war in Asia? I would suggest that the US/Russia/Commwealth did. The US and Commonwealth contributed most to the defeat of Japan (in particular the US).

Did Russia win the war in Europe? I would again suggest that Russia/US/Commonwealth did.

I think that what you are impyling is whether Russia was the main contributor to the defeat of Nazi Germany. In that respect you are correct, especially in men, materials and more importantly German dead.

However, what annoys me is two attitudes; one is forgetting the massive contribution of Russia, which mainly comes from ignorant UK/US sources.

The other is that Russia (which comes from Russian sources) won the war and could have done so single handedly. Remember there was incredible effort by the allies on the Western and North African Front. In particular Airpower. Not to mention Lend Lease.

Please remember that every committed German Soldier killed by the US/Commonwealth was one that 'Russia's' sons did not have to deal with.

It was significant and when the logistics of Germany's war of having to fight on two fronts. It ALL added to breaking the Nazi Regime in Germany.

[Paul Reed]

Historians would also argue that the Soviet effort in the East could also not have succeeded without logistical help supplied by the Western Allies... perhaps you have never heard of the Arctic Convoys?

[T-34]

Originally Posted by A Potts

... the logistics of Germany's war of having to fight on two fronts...

the 2nd front was opened in 1943 -
by the moment when outcome of war was already clear as Wermacht's back was broken at Stalingrad.

as for LendLease and the Allies' actions in Asia, Pacific and Western Europe -
well, as i said above: they amount to an assistance, but not to a co-victory.

[T-34]

Originally Posted by Paul Reed

... perhaps you have never heard of the Arctic Convoys?

and what did those ''Arctic Convoys'' transport to Russia - troops, i suppose ???...


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[Paul Reed]

Hmm - historians might also argue that troops win battles, but logistics win wars.

You clearly have an axe to grind, but it is a shame that you do so here. There would be few here who would deny Soviet Russia's contribution to the war, but to claim that Russia alone won the Second World War is simplistic to say the least.

[A Potts]

Originally Posted by T-34

the 2nd front was opened in 1943 -
by the moment when outcome of war was already clear as Wermacht's back was broken at Stalingrad.

as for LendLease and the Allies' actions in Asia, Pacific and Western Europe -
well, as i said above: they amount to an assistance, but not to a co-victory.

T-34 I respectfully submit it was not just 'assistance'. It was a desire to help Russia win the war. Trust me the US/Commonwealth would not have provided it and Stalin would not have wasted his logistics accepting it if was merely assistance. The Soviet Union was at times in serious trouble and the Nazi threat was not stopped offensively until 1943.

I will say this to you personally, I am proud to have friends from Russia and the Ukraine (we lived together in London). I know that you are a very proud people and so you should be about World War Two.

The suffering of the Russian people in World War Two is unparalleled in history.

[T-34]

Originally Posted by Paul Reed

... to claim that Russia alone won the Second World War is simplistic to say the least.

i didn't say it alone won the WW2,
i said it won this war with assistance given by the US and Britain.

[T-34]

Originally Posted by A Potts

... The suffering of the Russian people in World War Two is unparalleled in history.

nevermind, the Nazis paid for that alright.

[A Potts]

Originally Posted by T-34

i didn't say it alone won the WW2,
i said it won this war with assistance given by the US and Britain.

T-34 make yourself more clear. I wildly assume that english is not your first language (but your english is good). We assumed you stated that Russia won the war (without help).

Also remember that this is a mesage board with mainly British/Australia/US/New Zealand members. We may not see the war as a Russian would see it. However we are happy to argue about it.

Thanks,

Aaron