waffen ss

[herman browner]

hi

considering the waffen ss were the military branch of the ss do the forum members think that they are war criminals as the nuremburg trials decided or just soldiers who did their duty. obviously some, not all, committed war crimes but hasn't a soldier from every other fighting unit from around the world at some point done the same.

would be interested in your views

herman

[Thomas McCall]

The Waffen SS were more than just soldiers they were murderers. The SS were responsible for atrocites right across Europe and the excuse that they were just carrying out orders doesn't hold water, therefore the Nuremburg trial rightly gave them they're sentences.

[CROONAERT]

Originally posted by Thomas McCall@May 12 2004, 12:57 PM
The Waffen SS were more than just soldiers they were murderers. The SS were responsible for atrocites right across Europe and the excuse that they were just carrying out orders doesn't hold water, therefore the Nuremburg trial rightly gave them they're sentences.

...however, they were also involved in some of the finest and bravest military manouvres of the 20th century. Through mental and physical fitness, good equipment, tactical awareness throughout the chain of command, discipline and harsh training regimes, many SS units (especially earlier on in the war) rightfully deserve an "elite" status (though there were some crap ones too!) and ,in my eyes, purely for the military achievements rank alongside many of the famous Allied regiments.

B.

[Happy Hussar]

Simply saying: they were fanatics. Blinded by belief in Fuhrer.
Typical example of German way of thinking: order, order and once more order.

Small test. I always wandered how and what people, from western Europe, know about Polish history. Question: What is the story of SS-Standarte Germania?

[Thomas McCall]

I agree the Waffen SS were very good fighting soldiers and their bravery cannot be underestimated when in combat especially on the Eastern Front, but they will also be remembered for their war crimes.

[Friedrich H]

Through mental and physical fitness, good equipment, tactical awareness throughout the chain of command, discipline and harsh training regimes, many SS units (especially earlier on in the war) rightfully deserve an "elite" status (though there were some crap ones too!) and ,in my eyes, purely for the military achievements rank alongside many of the famous Allied regiments.

Does all this include the fact that many officers had no real combat experience and their agressive training led them to take extremely high and unnecessary amount of casualties?

In my opinion, even if there were some very, very good combat units and there were some exceptions too like 5th SS Panzer division 'Wiking' which is almost clean of every mention of war crimes, all these units were members of the greatest criminal organisation in History: the SS.

And most of this units, crowded with fervent nazis firmly beleived in nazi ideology and they carried out the war in the eastern front accordingly and then exported this kind of merciless warfare to the western front.

1st and 2nd SS Panzer divisions were definately the best divisions in the Wehrmacht —this is Armed Forces— but they were also involved in brutal treatment of war prisoners, partisans and civilians in both fronts.

It is useless also to say what the 3rd SS —made of concentration camps' personnel—, 4th SS, the 12th SS and other units —specially the anti-partisan units— did.

Also what about individuals like Dirlewanger, Monkhe, von dem Bach-Zelewski, Eicke?

If the German Army and even the Luftwaffe were up-to-the-neck in filth about war crimes, what can someone expect from Himmler's SS?

We have to understand something. WWII Germany was NAZI Germany, nazified Germans, nazi officials, nazi ideals, nazi culture —if you can call that culture— and nazi brutality. No pretty Germany with nice wood houses, sausages and beer! :angry:

[Paul K]

The SS were an elite unit within the Nazi regime. Like any elite unit, it would attract young German males who would be attracted to the status that it provided. I believe that they were a very effective fighting force who accomplished alot due to their physical fitness standards and training. But as Frederic H stated in his last paragraph, they were formed in Nazi Germany, hence perverted by the Nazi's and their blind obedience was taken advantage of to commit many atrocities. There were many other units that did the same thing in the name of Nazi Germany. There is a book called the Devils Brigade that does a good job explaining the average SS soldiers opinion of those matters during the war.

Just one more point, Germany was not the only country that commited war crimes during the war.

Paul K

[Glosters]

If anyone had told me a couple of years ago that I would feel some sympathy for a group of men who joined the Waffen-SS, I would never have believed them. I am English, my granfather was Polish. But history is full of ironic twists that lead down many interesting and unexpected paths.

Generally speaking the Nazis can rot in Hell for eternity.
But who can really condmen the men of the Finnisches Freiwilligen Bataillon der Waffen-SS .

Steve

[angie999]

Many of the Waffen SS divisions were made up of foreign Nazis who could join the SS but not the Heer. It is ironic that in the fighing in Berlin in the last days of the war, the German troops included French and Scandinavian SS members.

From 1942 onwards, many of the German police regiments in the East were incorporated into the SS and, even if they joined Waffen SS formations, many had previously been implicated in the Holocaust to various extents. The dividing line between the SS and the police was not sharply drawn, starting with Himmler in his role as RFSS and head of German Police. You could even say that Himmler himself served in a Waffen SS capacity during the short period at the end of the war when he was a disaster in the role of Army Group commander.

Later in the war, I believe that there was direct conscription in Germany into the SS though, so these individuals were not tainted by being volunteers.

I just don't think the Waffen SS as a whole can be that clearly distinguished from the rest of the SS, even if some units and individuals can be.

[Thomas McCall]

The dedication of some SS regiments by the end of the war shows their dedication to Hitler such as the SS Charlamagne which was made up of Frenchmen.

The SS Charlamagne defended the Reichstag in Berlin against the Soviets and repulsed many attacks against it and killed a large number of Soviet soldiers. They knew Germany was going to lose the war and probably that most of them would die, the reason they fought to the end in the Reichstag was their dedication to Hitler and their belief that they should kill as many communists as possible