Biggest Mistake of WWII

[sapper]

There can be no doubt. The failure to win the battle of Britain by changing course when the battle was more or less won. For before Hitler lay the conquest of the world.

The man that says Market Garden is surely way off beam, the only thing that was wrong with market garden was the final objective was not achieved, all the other objectives were fully successful. Including the easterly thrust North through Holland that ran alongside the central drive..We went Via the Escaut canal.. Weert route, a non stop drive to the North and abutting the Reichwald.

Its a very long time ago now, but I can recall, despite the ultimate failure at Arnhem, the feeling of great acheivement, get it perspective! here we were at the end of a supply line that stretched back through Holland, Belgium, and the length of France to Normandy, fighting in Northen Holland and we only failed to take that one place, all the others were won hands down.
What failure? Was the price worth paying? .....Too damned right it was. Nothing Venture?
sapper

[angie999]

"Lt Winters", somebody just started a new Market Garden thread (again!). If you post there, you can tell us the reasons for your conclusion.

[adamcotton]

(Kiwiwriter @ Nov 15 2005, 07:37 PM) [post=41596]One thing about the guns at Singapore...they didn't face the wrong way. They had the wrong ammunition, AP rounds instead of HE.
[/b]

Everything I have read has said the guns pointed out to sea, because no one could forsee an attack down the Malay Peninsula, which was dense with jungle. The Japanese capitalised on that fact and proved very adept at advancing through such terrain, catching the British forces totally off guard....

[spidge]

(adamcotton @ Dec 5 2005, 07:45 PM) [post=42665]

Everything I have read has said the guns pointed out to sea, because no one could forsee an attack down the Malay Peninsula, which was dense with jungle. The Japanese capitalised on that fact and proved very adept at advancing through such terrain, catching the British forces totally off guard....
[/b]

Myths about Fortress Singapore

The guns could only face the ocean, they could not be fired towards Malaya.

Not so. The naval guns installed could manage full traverse and fire towards Malaya. Unfortunately there was little use in so doing. They were NAVAL guns with ammunition for firing at ships at sea over very long distances i.e. flat trajectory. That is totally different from firing at a bunch of infantry soldiers on pushbikes. As anti personnel weapons they were useless, regardless of which way they pointed.
The guns of Changi still covered the sea approaches to the now deserted naval base, but as the Japanese forced their way south towards Singapore in the weeks that followed there dawned the bitter realization that these guns could not fire effectively in the direction from which the attack would now surely come. Writing to Mr Churchill on 16th January, General Wavell was obliged to say that ‘although the fortress cannon of heaviest nature had all-round traverse, their flat trajectory made them unsuitable for counter battery work.’ He could certainly not guarantee to dominate enemy siege batteries with them. A further point which soon emerged was that most of the ammunition for these guns was of the armour piercing variety, quite unsuitable for the bombardment of ground forces. From Changi History

[HellFire]

Ok in my opinion the biggest mistake of WWII (not counting Pearl Harbor or Hitler invading Russia) was the lack of comunication between the Axis members. Nobody ever got their point across to the other Axis countries. The only reason they were allied at all was because they realized that they needed allies for the also have to concentrate on. Also they all wanted power. This was the only conection they had. Italy was drawn to germany'spower. Russia wanted expansion Japan wanted expansion and resources, and Germany wanted world domination. None of the Axis powers would listen to each other. They would say what they wanted and were going to do and then leave it at that. They wouldnt make sure that the other countries concured with there objectives so they werent unified. If they were unified then they would have won.

[spidge]

(HellFire @ Dec 9 2005, 02:34 PM) [post=42878]Ok in my opinion the biggest mistake of WWII (not counting Pearl Harbor or Hitler invading Russia) was the lack of comunication between the Axis members. Nobody ever got their point across to the other Axis countries. The only reason they were allied at all was because they realized that they needed allies for the also have to concentrate on. Also they all wanted power. This was the only conection they had. Italy was drawn to germany'spower. Russia wanted expansion Japan wanted expansion and resources, and Germany wanted world domination. None of the Axis powers would listen to each other. They would say what they wanted and were going to do and then leave it at that. They wouldnt make sure that the other countries concured with there objectives so they werent unified. If they were unified then they would have won.
[/b]

Welcome Hellfire.

Are you including the Soviet Union as an Axis ally?

[Kiwiwriter]

(HellFire @ Dec 8 2005, 10:34 PM) [post=42878]Ok in my opinion the biggest mistake of WWII (not counting Pearl Harbor or Hitler invading Russia) was the lack of comunication between the Axis members. Nobody ever got their point across to the other Axis countries. The only reason they were allied at all was because they realized that they needed allies for the also have to concentrate on. Also they all wanted power. This was the only conection they had. Italy was drawn to germany'spower. Russia wanted expansion Japan wanted expansion and resources, and Germany wanted world domination. None of the Axis powers would listen to each other. They would say what they wanted and were going to do and then leave it at that. They wouldnt make sure that the other countries concured with there objectives so they werent unified. If they were unified then they would have won.
[/b]

Welcome aboard, Hellfire...do tell us about yourself!

I'm not sure if I read you right...are you suggesting that the Soviets were an Axis power or are you saying that their non-aggression pact with Germany was based on aggression (Poland, the Baltic States)?

[Annabella]

I ADDED THIS TO THE BRITISH FORUM - TO ME THIS IS A BIG MISTAKE IN WWII - MY GRANDFATHER WAS LIED AND USED BY THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT TO HELP THEM FIGHT THEIR BATTTLES. NOT TO SAY THIS IS POLITICAL WHAT THEY DID TO THE PALESTINIANS - ESPECIALLY THE CHRISTIANS. PEOPLE FORGET PALESTIANS ARE CHRISTIAN TOO NOT ONLY MUSLIM.

Dear Veterans & Others,

I am writing in seeking to establish a support group, to compensate Palestian Christian Arab Soldiers who fought for the British in World War II in Germany.

The way this is written will be about my families experience however this also is the same to many other Arab Christian Palestian Family members.

This is a true story.

I need to explain a couple of things first of all.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS 99.95% OF WRITTEN DOCUMENTION about Palestians during the Balfour Agreement IS LIES - referring to when they fought with them.

A number of the older people are stll alive like my mother My Grandmother's Sister etc alos good sources i have. One of my Auntys (Mothers Sister) works for UNESCO in Paris.

I am a Grandchild of one of your fellow soldiers who fought along side by you during world war II. - Not to mention his two brothers were also soldiers for the British.

I am an Australian (ps best country in the world) however my mother and father are Palestian Christians.

My Grandfather (Mum's dad) was a Sargent for the British Army during WWII went to fight for the British as a Palestian with a Palestian PASSPORT. However the Britsh granted him british citizenship for his duty. During his time he and his brothers were captured in Germany and held as prisioners of war for SEVEN YEARS under Hitlers barney days.

During his service he made dear friends with fellow british soldiers understanding, being a prisoner of war for 7 years no contact to the outside world other than your fellow soldiers/teammates. Not seeing your family is heatbreaking and noting knowing will you make it alive. We all know how many died during WWII. My view I wish it never happened and I wish MAN never mad GUNS etc.

My Grandmother did not know if her husband was a live or dead, she suffered, no respect was given to her to help her find a communication channel between them.

I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT IT WAS ONLY THE PALESTIAN CHRISTIAN ARABS WHO FOUGHT THE GERMANS WITH THE BRITISH TO HELP THE JEWS. PEOPLE DONT STATE THAT. AND OF COURSE WHERE IS IT WRITTEN MAYBE IN 1 DOCUMENT OUT of a TRILLION

THERE IS DOCUMENTATION THAT THE JEWS WENT THAT IS A LIE THEY DID NOT WANT TO FIGHT HITLER. I HAVE THIS LINK FOR YOU TO SEE.

ALSO STATES THAT IT WAS 30,000 PALESTIAN JEWS WHO FOUGHT ALONG THE BRITISH ARMY IN WORLD WAR II AGAIN FACT IS A LIE LIE LIE .

Ok I know I am going on but I am tired of the lies out there and the educated jews who write lies to make them the heros and Angry with the British for going back on everything and gave nothing WHEN THEY GAVE THERE LIVES TO THEM THE BRITISH TO HELP AGAINST HITLER. I UNDERSTAND THEY SUFFERED. BUT EVERONE HAS SUFFERED. WHAT ABOUT THE CHRISTIANS HITLER KILLED ETC.

THIS IS WHAT MY GRANDFATHER GOT AFTER HIS SERVICE AND I WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW AND WANT TO GET SUPPORT TO HELP ME BECAUSE I BELEIVE IN MY HEART LIKE HIS FELLOW BRITISH SOLDERS RECEIVED HE TO IS ENTITLED TO WHAT THEY GOT - A VETRENS PENSION AND ACKNOWLEDGMENT.

ONE THING I THING I FORGOT TO MENTION APPARENTLY SOMETHING WAS WAS ESTABLISH WITH JORDAN ABOUT THE PALESTIANS FIGHTING FOR THE BRITISH.

I LIKE TO POINT OUT - THAT IN THAT PERIOD THE BRITISH WAS IN CONTROL OF PALESTINE AND PALESTIANS LIVED IN PALESTINE NOT JORDAN. IF AN AGREEMENT WITH JORDEN WAS MADE ABOUT THE PALESTIANS NOT TO PAY COMPENSATION TO THE PALESTINIANS. THAT DOES NOT STAND AS JORDON DID NOT AND STILL HAS NO CONTROL OVER PALESTINE/ISRAEL. THIS WAS WAS NEVER TOLD TO THE FELLOW SOLDERS WHO VOLENTEERED FOR THE BRITISH ARMY. IN MY EYES THIS IS ILLEGAL AND DOES NOT HOLD AND I DONT CARE. NOT MATTER WHAT THEY MUST GET WHAT IS OWED TO THEM. THINK ABOUT IT IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION. BEING MISLEAD AND LIED TO DO YOU THINK THAT IS RIGHT HONESTLY?

HE DID GET A WAGE DURING THE SERVICE.

ONCE ENDED

HE NEVER GOT ANY COMPENSATION NO VETERANS PENSION NOTHING NOTHING

PRETTY MUCH SEE YOU LATER.

HIS BRITISH CITIZENSHIP WAS REVOKED, CHANGED THEIR MINDS CANT HAVE IT ANY MORE IN OTHER WORDS.

He was awarded 3 medals but how will that feed a family of 7.


I WOULD LIKE YOUR DECSION TO BE HONSET TO YOU MEANING - IT DOES NOT MATTER IF MY GRANDFATHER WAS AN ARAB PALESTIAN OR A CHINESE WHO FOUGHT FOR THE BRITISH DURING THE WWII.

WHAT HE DID AND MANY OTHERS DID WERE CHEATED AND USED LIKE ANIMALS THEY DIED FOR THEM, TO ME THAT IS UNJUST. MY MOTHER WAS CRYING TO SEE HER FATHER WHEN SHE WAS A CHILD.

PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE IT ON WHERE THE PERSON IS FROM BUT WHETHER YOU THINK A PERSON SHOULD BE TREATED THIS WAY FOR A DUTY SERVED ESPECIALLY DURING WWII.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE ARAB-JEW POLTICS - IT IS ABOUT AWARENESS OF SERVED DUTY AND IT IS ABOUT TIME THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT MADE COMPANESTAION TO THE FAMILIES OF THE ARAB CHRISTIAN PALESTIAN SOLDIERS WHO FOUGHT ALONG THEIR SIDE AGAINST HITLER.

IT WAS ONLY CHRISTIANS WHO FOUGHT NOT MUSLIMS - I MIGHT BE WRONG ON THIS BUT SO FAR BEEN TOLD ONLY CHRISTIANS FOUGHT - MUSLIMS WERE NOT ABLE TO FOR RELIGOUS REASON IF I AM CORRECT.

I SEEK SUPPORT IN ESTABLISHING A EMAIL WITH SIGNATURES TO SEND TO THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

[Glider]

Back to the topic. I would suggest that one of the biggest mistakes of WW2 was Hitler not accepting Stalins requests for peace when the Germans were first approaching Stalingrad.
The rest of the world must be greatful for that mistake as there is no doubt that the whole outcome could have changed if Hitler had accepted these peace feelings. With secure fuel supplies, additional food from Russia and the ability to concentrate on one front it would have been difficult for the Allies to win the war.

[adamcotton]

(spidge @ Dec 5 2005, 11:22 AM) [post=42673]

Myths about Fortress Singapore

The guns could only face the ocean, they could not be fired towards Malaya.

Not so. The naval guns installed could manage full traverse and fire towards Malaya. Unfortunately there was little use in so doing. They were NAVAL guns with ammunition for firing at ships at sea over very long distances i.e. flat trajectory. That is totally different from firing at a bunch of infantry soldiers on pushbikes. As anti personnel weapons they were useless, regardless of which way they pointed.
The guns of Changi still covered the sea approaches to the now deserted naval base, but as the Japanese forced their way south towards Singapore in the weeks that followed there dawned the bitter realization that these guns could not fire effectively in the direction from which the attack would now surely come. Writing to Mr Churchill on 16th January, General Wavell was obliged to say that ‘although the fortress cannon of heaviest nature had all-round traverse, their flat trajectory made them unsuitable for counter battery work.’ He could certainly not guarantee to dominate enemy siege batteries with them. A further point which soon emerged was that most of the ammunition for these guns was of the armour piercing variety, quite unsuitable for the bombardment of ground forces. From Changi History
[/b]

Thanks for correcting me on the detail, Spidge.

I think the point I was making was that the British couldn't forsee an attack down the Malay Peninsula for the reasons already stated and accordingly optimised the guns to fire at the only percieved likely threat - ships out at sea.

I think one of the biggest mistakes of WW2 occurred during the Battle of Britain, when the Luftwaffe failed to send small units of fighters over to strafe the RAF fighters on the forward airfields such as Hawkinge and Lympne. Had they done so - instead of being shackled to the bombers in a close escort role - the RAF's capacity to respond would have been rapidily diminished. The Battle of Britain may well have been lost, and with it the war...