Biggest Mistake of WWII

[Harry Ree]

I agree.Japan had no alliances who could help them to sustain a presence close to the US or on any US coastline.They were incapable of mounting a successful invasion of the US mainland in any strategy to defeat the US.Once the US war machine started to roll,Japan could not stop it.As a country with no oil,little coal,Japans fate was sealed from the time when it thought that the Pearl Harbour raid was the end of US naval power in the Pacific.Once the USAAF developed and brought the B29 into service which was a little later than planned then the Japanese felt the full force of the devastating fireraids on their home based industry.

It has to be tabled.Did the Japanese military powers expect to eliminate the influence of the US from the Pacific and SE Asia.Their policy was one of "slash and burn"which created enemies not alliances.A similar policy to Hitler's in Russia.

What did Japan hope to achieve by going to war with the US and Great Britain.

The nearest thing that the Japanese threatened the US mainland with, was wind blown balloon bombs which were random, inaccurate and restricted to nuisance value.

[Thomas McCall]

3 civilians were killed on the US mainland by those balloons in one 'attack' whilst they were on a picnic trip. The only three killed on the US mainland from enemy means during the entire war this happened some time in 1945.

[Kiwiwriter]

Originally posted by Thomas McCall@Aug 12 2004, 12:48 PM
Was the landing of troops on the Hawaiian islands ever considered by the japanese high command as after the attack Pearl harbour was turned into an impreganble fortress. The ja[anese would never have had a better oppurtunity to land troops than they did on December 7th 1941.

Quoted post

It was considered, but not in detail. The Japanese believed that maintaining the necessary occupation and defense force would be beyond their abilities. They did believe they could blockade the islands and neutralize them, however.

The greatest mistake? I don't think there's one single mistake: there's a bunch of them for the Axis alone:

1) German delays before Dunkirk.
2) Hitler's delays after the Fall of France.
3) German failure to organize a war economy (despite being a totalitarian state)
4) Nazi anti-Semitism, which denied them some great scientific services.
5) Hitler rushing into war before completion of air and naval construction plans
6) German invasion of Russia.
7) Failure to conquer Malta.
8) Inability to properly handle logistics.
9) Declaration of war on the United States (that was fatal).
10) Frittering away of manpower on private armies.
11) Decision to hold Stalingrad instead of withdrawing.
12) Kursk offensive.
13) Investment of time and energy in bizarre weapons, like the Do 335, Mistel, "super-tanks," and guided missiles.
14) Failure to safeguard communications.
15) "No retreat" orders as the war went on.
16) Hitler's hirings and firings of generals, which led to vacillation in times of crisis.
17) Hitler's micromanagment, which made it worse.
18) Belief that slave labor would successfully fuel war machine.
19) Nazi misunderstanding of strengths of democracies (moral, leadership, and economic).
20) Nazi credo, which worshipped destruction, sadism, kleptomania, and violence, which created moral leadership vacuums that supported wasteful and self-destructive policies.
21) Misreading of strength of Allied coalition.
22) Misreading of America by Japanese in planning war.
23) Divisions between Imperial Army and Navy that led to chaotic supreme command structure.
24) Failure to address sinkings of merchant ships and tankers by Japanese.
25) Misuse of powerful Japanese submarine arm.
26) Japanese over-reliance on "spirit" which led to overly aggressive operations and tactics.
27) Japanese arrogance in planning Midway and other actions, which also led to stereotyped operations.
28) Japanese failure to enlist Asians in war to create "Great East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere."
29) Japanese belief in "single decisive battle."
30) Failure of Japanese to train replacement aviators for those lost after first 100 days of war.
31) Mussolini's decision to enter "parallel war."
32) Italian pre-war failures to develop economy and military.

Those should do for a start.

[Dave Leonard]

Biggest mistake?

Germany starting the bloody thing. If they had waited for long enough, Stalin would have started it all by himself. The Germans would have rushed to the rescue of Poland, ther French and Bristish would likely had become involved and suddenly Fascisim would have been in bed with the Democracys.

Germany could have snaked into Russia, nicked al the land they wanted and would probably still be there today.

Certainly would have made for an inersting post war period

[Edward_N_Kelly]

Battle of Britain - could the Germans have ever won it ?

One of the oft made remarks is that the British would have lost the Battele of Britain if the Germans had persisted in attacking the RAF airfields in Southern and particularly South-Eastern England in the summer of 1940......

Why would they failed to beat the RAF (unless some really serious mistakes were made by the RAF and their political leaders) ?

If you think about it, the RAF only ever committted some 50% or even less of Fighter Command to the battel of S-E England at any one time. The rest were training, patrolling and refitting in comparative safety to the north and west of the main battlefield. Dowding's policy of rotation of squadrons through the battlefield and later his feeding forward of pilots meant that, while the whole of the operational Lufwaffe was committed to the fight (with consequent fatigue) there was apool of comparatively fresh pilots available to the RAF to use as replacements.

Added to this was the adapability of the RAF in picking and countering new tactics used by the Luftwaffe as the battle went on, as well as the superb RDF reporting and control system, meant that the Luftwaffe was always in danger of being snookered.

If the worst came to the worst, Dowding could (and in fact did) move the squadrons back from the channel coast, lengthening the range for the Lufwffe to engage them in combat (and consaquently lessening their combat time). These airfields could be maintained as forward landing grounds for rest, refuel and re-arm during daylight hours.

Of more danger to the RAF was the loss of CH RDF stations but redundancy as well as a failure by the Luftwaffe to recognise how these fitted into the system (or indeed to recognise that the system even existed) meant that they were never seriously interdicted.

If the RAF had been forced into defending the Channel cast by their political masters or if the Luftwaffe attempted and had been able to remove the RDF stations and their control/reporting system, then the RAF would have been in a severe bind.

As it was, even if the RAF had withdrawn north of London (except for defence of Southhampton/Portsmouth) while still using southerly LGs and engaging the Luftwaffe south of London, then the battle would have lasted into winter. It would have allowed the RAF to recuperate and start to receive the first of the EATS pilots and therby stand ready again for a renewed onslaught.

But then Hitler was always looking east.....

Cheers
Edward

[Gnomey]

I believe the biggest mistakes of WW2 were: Hitler's declaration of war on the USA in support of Japan when the Pact of Steel did not include a clause saying that one of the allies would support the other if they became involved in war, if this was the case then Japan would have had to enter the war in 1939 and not 1941 unless the broke the clause in the Pact with Germany and Italy. The other big mistakes of WW2 is Hitler's invasion of the USSR (Barbarossa) as well as his failure to win the battle of Britain if he had won he would have had only to fight the USSR and not the British Empire, America and the USSR probably 3 of the 5 most powerfully countries at the time (with Germany and Japan the other 2) an almost impossible situation to win.

[Rebel]

Originally posted by Gnomey@Sep 23 2004, 10:17 AM
...was the case then Japan would have had to enter the war in 1939 and not 1941

Quoted post

not quite, japan allied with the axis in 1940, thus impossible to enter the war in 1939

[Gnomey]

Ok but then would Japan have declared war on Britain and the USSR or not, as in the end she did and only declare war on America and Britain (as well as the lesser allied countries that had colonies in the far east such has The Netherlands) and only fight the USSR in the very last weeks of the war?

[JoeRoman]

Gentlemen:

The greatest initial mistake for the cause of WW2 was the French, who blinked when Hitler tested them in the 1936 Rhineland reoccupation. It is written that AH sent his 100,000 men into the Rhinland and would have immediately 'withdrawn' if the French had shown any will to stop them. We all know now, that they didn't. This opened up the opportunity for AH to totally disregard the Versaille treaty and not worry about what the western allies would do. Thus began the buildup. The liberal govt. of England wanted nothing to do with it and the Socialists in France were probably under the orders of Stalin. All Politics again.

After the war started in '39, the Germans(thank God) were too embroiled in their internal petty politics over this and that to come to a full wartime economy. For instance the lack of a Germany heavy bomber in order to hit much further into England along with the ability to add extra fuel tanks to their escorts, but then it took the US awhile to do it too. But one considerable mistake on the German part was that they could have had jetfighters operational by 1942 en masse. What would that have done to the allied air offensive.

Why AH declared war on the US on December 10th still bogles my mind. He was in the midst of war in Russia and now he brings in the soon to be super power of them all. This seems to me to be his worst mistake of all. Even US Confederate General Robert E. Lee thought that the Army of Northern Virginia could not be defeated. His ego and the history of his army said so, but it was not to be. And it ended for both.

Adolf thought of himself as infallible. But there are good reasons behind this. Keep in mind that his generals kept on telling him that he couldn't do something and then when he did it anyway it worked. Rhinland, Czechoslavkia(sp?) Poland, France and after the debacle in Finland by Russia, who would have thought the Soviets would have been any harder to beat then the rest! Even when he was stuck in front of Moscow, he ordered all troops to stand and fight where they were. It is recognized now that this order actually saved the Eastern front from collapsing. After that, things did not go as well for him for the rest of the war. The oil fields in the Caucasus' were too badly mauled for much use for a long time. The US had supplied the Soviets the equivalent of 80 divisions worth of supplies and equipment.

One thing that might have helped immensely would have been the production of advanced U-boats for the Atlantic campaign.

It boggles the mind what WW2 could have actually turned into. It started out with fairly low tech stuff and ended up with Nuclear weapons and created a super super power.

Many good things have been said on all these posts, the maybe's and should have's just keep adding up. Thank God we won.

Just the ramblings of an old man.

Joe

[morse1001]

Originally posted by Thomas McCall@Aug 15 2004, 05:05 PM
3 civilians were killed on the US mainland by those balloons in one 'attack' whilst they were on a picnic trip. The only three killed on the US mainland from enemy means during the entire war this happened some time in 1945.

Quoted post

there is the famous story about general Macarthur, who, while besiged at in Bataan, heard the news about the "Raid" on Los Angles. he sent a message to the General in Charge of the Los Angles Military District in which he said that had he been given 48hrs notice then he would sent reinforcements!!! :P