Behind The Lines.

[sapper]

Would the present day folk beleive that an army gramophone was taken deep inside the enemy lines, just to play little plastic records of men preparing to bridge a river crossing, Right under the noses of the enemy? Would you think that is complete rubbish? or would you think it possible?

So! what do you think?
Sapper

[Gnomey]

I would believe that it was possible, it something I could see happening at least. Why do you ask, did it happen?

[spidge]

Originally posted by sapper@Jul 26 2005, 03:33 AM
Would the present day folk beleive that an army gramophone was taken deep inside the enemy lines, just to play little plastic records of men preparing to bridge a river crossing, Right under the noses of the enemy? Would you think that is complete rubbish? or would you think it possible?

So! what do you think?
Sapper

Quoted post

I would think that somebody was trying to stick something up somebody and yes I would like to hear the result also.

[sapper]

Oh yes! it happened, along with many other operations that are somehow looked on as "too way out to be true"
I took part in that bit of subversion, it was cold dirty and horrible.

Deception.
Just two feet away!

Bizarre, that is the only way to describe this little escapade, even now I look back and wonder, how the hell did we get away with it? A small group of us had been briefed to make our way out on to the wet lands, penetrate through the German lines, and then travel some miles inside Enemy held territory, (again, who needs the SAS?) quiet as mice, the whole object of this operation was not to be caught. At this point, I hesitate to go further with this description of what happened, in the past when I have told this factual story, I have been looked at sideways, just as though I was losing my marbles!

Our orders were to make our way right up to the banks of the river Maas, deep in Enemy territory, later at dusk, we set off, creeping along as quiet as we could, we never saw a soul, made our way right up to the bank of the river and lay there in the rushes in freezing, clammy, horrible wet Dutch mud, Our purpose to deceive the enemy. NOW. Would you believe, we were playing little plastic disc records on a small portable army gramophone, of men preparing to bridge the river, with all the sounds of clanking metal and men talking! All night long we laid on our stomachs until our limbs froze, about midnight, two Germans came down to where we were, then loaded up a multiple mortar, (A moaning minnie) a few feet away from our hiding place, talking amongst themselves with no idea that we were there. When they had loaded the weapon they fired it at our base miles away, in the process, damn near deafening us, there was nothing we could do about it, they then set off back, talking and laughing together.

Early in the morning, at first light, we set off back ourselves, frozen stiff and numb with cold, stiff as boards, we made it back without being caught. How we got away with it, I shall never know, I just wish that I could trace another who was there that night. When I tell people the full story I swear they think I am shooting a line. This really did happen!

Now, I did not mind lying in cold freezing Dutch mud on my tummy for hours on end, stiff as a board, miles inside Enemy territory, putting up with the danger of being captured, or shot, or worse, cold, wet, and thoroughly miserable, for my country, but what I do object to, is people who look at you as though you are not telling the truth, it enrages me. But then, on reflection, I am not surprised, those were momentous times, I hope that our youngsters will not have the same experiences. These days it would be considered a job for the SAS, or some other specialized group, back in 1944 great things were afoot, and the necessity to take on these tasks was seen as part of the Royal Engineers Field Companies duties!
sapper

[Kiwiwriter]

Get your hands on "The Deceivers" by Thaddeus Holt, and another new book I just got (whose name logically escapes me), which discusses the US 23rd Special Troops, a "rubber-duck" deception outfit that included "sonic deceivers," sound artists who could make noises and play records that sounded like artillery moving, tanks, mortar barrages, and so on.

"The Deceivers" is a titanic history of the Allied deception efforts in WW2, including all the great camouflage schemes. They were incredible.

I've often agreed with Stephen Ambrose that the great strength of democracy is that it encourages personal initiative and creativity, as well as greater loyalty than totalitarianism (but perhaps not fundamentalism), which provides democracy with many intangible resources that win wars.

[spidge]

Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Jul 26 2005, 11:36 PM
Get your hands on "The Deceivers" by Thaddeus Holt, and another new book I just got (whose name logically escapes me), which discusses the US 23rd Special Troops, a "rubber-duck" deception outfit that included "sonic deceivers," sound artists who could make noises and play records that sounded like artillery moving, tanks, mortar barrages, and so on.

"The Deceivers" is a titanic history of the Allied deception efforts in WW2, including all the great camouflage schemes. They were incredible.

I've often agreed with Stephen Ambrose that the great strength of democracy is that it encourages personal initiative and creativity, as well as greater loyalty than totalitarianism (but perhaps not fundamentalism), which provides democracy with many intangible resources that win wars.

Quoted post

Most of those guys must have had an appointment in Hollywood after the war.

[Kiwiwriter]

Originally posted by spidge+Jul 26 2005, 11:31 AM-->

Most of those guys must have had an appointment in Hollywood after the war.

Quoted post

[/b]

A lot of them had appointments in Hollywood BEFORE the war. Hollywood shook itself upside down to provide the 23rd with artists and special-effects wizards.

Their greatest achievement was to turn the Lockheed factory outside Los Angeles into a suburban community (from the air), complete with washing hanging on lines and cars parking front of garages. The sophists who created this trompe de l'oeil went on to create Disneyland. Clearly, from working for Uncle Sam, they were familiar with Mickey Mouse organizations.

[Gnomey]

Really interesting story sapper, I admire you for doing it. It was momentous times and many momentous things were achieved by ordinary people that would have never happened in peace time.

[Dac]

General Montgomery used this sort of trick during El Alamein. MTBs laid a smoke screen off the beaches being defended by the 90th Div. Barges were then deployed with recorders playing the sounds of anchors dropping, men yelling orders, and landing craft motors. Open barrels of diesel created the smell of an invasion fleet. For several hours the deception drew off German reserves from the real attack.

In WW II the British were years ahead any other nation when it came to deception.
Anthony Cave Brown wrote a great book about this subject called Bodyguard of Lies.