Germany's defeat

Androvski · 19-03-2006, 06:38 PM

Hello there. I like what if history. Now the most famous of all of the what if questions is the question what if Hitler had won the war?.

Firstly, I think the main reason for his loss is the stupidity of his allies.
If it wasnt for Mussolinis "playing a hero" in Africa Hitler would not have to send him Afrika Korps reenforcements to save him. Hitler was afraid of if the Brittish would win in N. Africa (and Italy later on) They wauld have an open door to Germany. So at the same time he was struggeling at Stalingrad he had to send a lot of military force to Africa.

Stalin's spyring in Tokyo confirmed that Imperial Japan were not attacking the Soviets in the far east. So a Soviet army of 750.000 men came from the far east to the eastern front In Russia and blasted the Germans back to Berlin.
Another point for the Japaneese. They pulled the Americans officially in to the war so I think it is all the fault of The Itialians and Japaneese.

What do you guys think?

19-03-2006, 08:12 PM

Blaming the Italians. Hmm, considering one of my lecturers is from Sicily and is making me rewrite an essay, GO FOR IT!

Kiwiwriter · 20-03-2006, 04:52 PM

Androvski, there are a number of books, both fiction and non-fiction, that discuss the subject of Europe and the world under Hitler's thumb. "Fatherland," about 1964 Berlin, is the best of the novels. I think Trevor-Roper's view was right, about how it would be a "millennium of mediocrity, from which the imagination would have no escape."

As for blaming the Italians and Japanese...the Germans did themselves in in many ways..."Why the Allies Won," by Richard Overy, is a good place to start on those failures.

ComradeRomain · 24-03-2006, 05:29 AM

Well Mussolini the great idiot thought hed get back at Hitler for invading Rumania by sending his victorious and proud troops to invade Greece to 'balance things up'. However, the italians lost so badly they had to retreat. Meanwhile it attracted the English upon the continent in Greece, thus Hitler had to make a move to Greece, postponing operation barbarossa...eventually leading to not an as great summer offensive in russia the warlords had hoped for.

Aerofalcon14 · 21-04-2006, 02:48 PM

Another reason for Hitler's loss was that he became so obsessed with his "final solution" that he actually pulled troops from the western and Russian fronts in order to complete his extermination of the Jews and other minorities, and thus he didn't evan have the negotiating power in the end to keep any of his conquered lands, thereby losing it all.

39thmilitia · 21-04-2006, 03:21 PM

Actually American troops fighting Germany was totally Hitler's fault. Germany and the Japanese had a defensive alliance and so Hitler had no obligation to declare war on the US which is why the US came to Europe.

spidge · 21-04-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androvski

Hello there. I like what if history. Now the most famous of all of the what if questions is the question what if Hitler had won the war?.

Firstly, I think the main reason for his loss is the stupidity of his allies.
If it wasnt for Mussolinis "playing a hero" in Africa Hitler would not have to send him Afrika Korps reenforcements to save him. Hitler was afraid of if the Brittish would win in N. Africa (and Italy later on) They wauld have an open door to Germany. So at the same time he was struggeling at Stalingrad he had to send a lot of military force to Africa.

Stalin's spyring in Tokyo confirmed that Imperial Japan were not attacking the Soviets in the far east. So a Soviet army of 750.000 men came from the far east to the eastern front In Russia and blasted the Germans back to Berlin.
Another point for the Japaneese. They pulled the Americans officially in to the war so I think it is all the fault of The Itialians and Japaneese.

What do you guys think?

Don't forget Mussolini's foray into Greece which delayed Germany's push into the Soviet Union. I am not saying it would have made a difference but it sure did not help the Germans. It has been said many times before that allowing Mussolini to play with the big boy's was the second biggest mistake Hitler ever made. Mussolini was a Millstone around Hitlers neck.

The biggest........Declaring war on the United States!

Za Rodinu · 21-04-2006, 07:04 PM

That guy sure had a knack for the right decision, didn't he?

21-04-2006, 08:07 PM

It was a Gift.

plant-pilot · 21-04-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosquito617

It was a Gift.

Maybe he just lived by the old addage:-

"You can make good decisions and bad decisions, but indecision is a sign of weakness."

Only in Italian obviously

19-03-2006, 06:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Androvski Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland Posts: 5	Germany's defeat Hello there. I like what if history. Now the most famous of all of the what if questions is the question what if Hitler had won the war?. Firstly, I think the main reason for his loss is the stupidity of his allies. If it wasnt for Mussolinis "playing a hero" in Africa Hitler would not have to send him Afrika Korps reenforcements to save him. Hitler was afraid of if the Brittish would win in N. Africa (and Italy later on) They wauld have an open door to Germany. So at the same time he was struggeling at Stalingrad he had to send a lot of military force to Africa. Stalin's spyring in Tokyo confirmed that Imperial Japan were not attacking the Soviets in the far east. So a Soviet army of 750.000 men came from the far east to the eastern front In Russia and blasted the Germans back to Berlin. Another point for the Japaneese. They pulled the Americans officially in to the war so I think it is all the fault of The Itialians and Japaneese. What do you guys think? __________________ Last edited by Androvski; 19-03-2006 at 06:40 PM.

20-03-2006, 04:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Newark, NJ, and Christchurch, NZ Posts: 2,431	Hitler victorious? Androvski, there are a number of books, both fiction and non-fiction, that discuss the subject of Europe and the world under Hitler's thumb. "Fatherland," about 1964 Berlin, is the best of the novels. I think Trevor-Roper's view was right, about how it would be a "millennium of mediocrity, from which the imagination would have no escape." As for blaming the Italians and Japanese...the Germans did themselves in in many ways..."Why the Allies Won," by Richard Overy, is a good place to start on those failures. __________________ "My intensity is intense." -- Roger Clemens "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender." -- Winston Churchill. "I am not a hero. The heroes are all dead. I am a survivor." -- Sgt. William Guarnere, Easy Company, 506th Parachute Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. Check out my little contributions to World War II history at my web pages: World War II Plus 55 or http://davidhlippman.wildbillguarnere.com

21-04-2006, 07:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Za Rodinu So you hear voices too? Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,244	That guy sure had a knack for the right decision, didn't he? __________________ "Tell me again, son, who lost the frigging war?"

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19-03-2006, 08:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kitty Guest Posts: n/a	Blaming the Italians. Hmm, considering one of my lecturers is from Sicily and is making me rewrite an essay, GO FOR IT!

24-03-2006, 05:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
ComradeRomain Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 39	Well Mussolini the great idiot thought hed get back at Hitler for invading Rumania by sending his victorious and proud troops to invade Greece to 'balance things up'. However, the italians lost so badly they had to retreat. Meanwhile it attracted the English upon the continent in Greece, thus Hitler had to make a move to Greece, postponing operation barbarossa...eventually leading to not an as great summer offensive in russia the warlords had hoped for.

21-04-2006, 02:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Aerofalcon14 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: not required Posts: 16	Another reason for Hitler's loss was that he became so obsessed with his "final solution" that he actually pulled troops from the western and Russian fronts in order to complete his extermination of the Jews and other minorities, and thus he didn't evan have the negotiating power in the end to keep any of his conquered lands, thereby losing it all.

21-04-2006, 03:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
39thmilitia Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 76	Actually American troops fighting Germany was totally Hitler's fault. Germany and the Japanese had a defensive alliance and so Hitler had no obligation to declare war on the US which is why the US came to Europe.

21-04-2006, 08:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kitty Guest Posts: n/a	It was a Gift.

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