if it were not for the jews there would be no ww2

[plant-pilot]

Originally Posted by mosquito617

prance around in a ridiculous uniform

Okay, the wearing of a uniform may seem a little strange to us, but at the time in germany it wasn't very unusual at all for members of a political party to wear some form of uniform. In fact that could be extended to many other european countries at the time.

It is also interesting to note that unlike some of the party leaders, Hitler's uniform was not very flamboyant and had minimal badges, gold braid etc. This has been intepreted as having a well intended meaning. The 'Alpha' member of a group not needing to 'display' and the playing down of the 'display' element of his uniform gaining trust and showing confidence to his followers. Sort of "I don't need to show off, I AM the boss!" and "You can trust me... look, I'm just like you".

It may be complete 'B#####ks, but if it does have any truth it does show that he put a lot more thought into things than a madman would. Just thought I'd mention it.

[morse1001]

Don't suppose you have a leather duster coat lying around?

Nein! mein Fraulin!

Morse, my cute little uniformed vampire, what sane person would invade several countries,

if you look at the creation of the British Empire then decsions were made to invade more than several countries, but the people who made the decsion would call themselves sane!

try to wipe out an entire population merely because he didn't like them

Again, if we look at the british policy for the emipre, or the American policy with the Indians etc, then again the people would call themselves dane.

and prance around in a ridiculous uniform spouting about the Master race being blonde hair blue eyed when he was short, dumpy, brown hair and brown eyed?

If he had been dressed as a chicken and carry a rubber man, then yes, I would have said that he was - to use the exprerssion - a bit of a loony. But if you look at Hitler in his uniform, it was rather simple compared to Good Old Fat herman!!

But he was only expressing his ideal for the country.

Just as extra thing, Hitler's taste in woman was those who were Junoesque, yet he married Eva Braun. I suppose, I could say that he was a good example of the Jungian duality of man theory!!

But if you look at his military decsions they follow a normal thought pattern, even to the extent he used German General Staff techniques to fight the war.

Okay! he did go overboard with the old carpet chewing, but hey! who does not do that under stress?
Do not get me wrong, i am not trying to defend the man, but act as a devils advocate!!

Hmm.
Okay, we did invade several countries (or lots) but except in a few certain areas we did not try to wipe out an entire section of the population.
Uniforms - i don't go with view that he was trying to portray the "Hey! I'm just like you, honest!" view at all. Maybe it was part of the Alpha male thing, but it just doesn't ring that true. I accept that in germany at this time it was normal to wear a uniform, but he wore it nearly 24/7! Where were the comfy slacks and battered old shoes?
British ruling class - where have i ever called them sane?
As to his military decisions, yes they did follow normal routes up to a certain point, but by 1943 they were beginning to go a bit haywire. Why not use an Upkeep against us when you had the full schematics and working bombs in the pipeline? Why suddenly change your mind when it was nearly ready to go? Doesn't make sense. He could have turned the war back germany's way if he head hit our reservoirs and wiped out Manchester/Sheffield.
What sane commander doesn't listen to his most experienced generals when they tell him an attack is coming in one place, and sends all of his troops somewhere else?
Hitler was looppy, but he was so far over the sanity horizon come the end that it was a good imitation of sanity.
Kitty.

The previous post has been removed by my darling Morse, so i no longer need to leave my response.
Kitty.

[morse1001]

Okay, we did invade several countries (or lots) but except in a few certain areas we did not try to wipe out an entire section of the population.

That is because we invaded to expolit the people and resources of whatever particular country we were invading.

lets not forget, that the main reason we had a empire was that France would not allow us to gain enetry to Europe - feelings of da javue here - and so we had to find alternatives.

Uniforms - i don't go with view that he was trying to portray the "Hey! I'm just like you, honest!" view at all. Maybe it was part of the Alpha male thing, but it just doesn't ring that true.

After spending almost thirtenn years in one sort of uniform, I take the view that i do not need to wear one! In fact, when I see kids wearing combat trousers, i take the view that I used to be paid to wear them, you have to pay to wear them!!

But you should not knock a countrys tradition just because it goes agin your beliefs!!!!

but he wore it nearly 24/7! Where were the comfy slacks and battered old shoes?

next to his golf clubs and tennis racket!!! I agree he seemed to wear it all the time - you will have to forgive me, i do not like the exprerssion 24/7 - but there are photos of him wearing civilian clothes but like so many ex-military types he does not look comfortable in civvies.

Why not use an Upkeep against us when you had the full schematics and working bombs in the pipeline? Why suddenly change your mind when it was nearly ready to go?

That is a difficult question to answer. However, I would think given the military situation at the time and the need to husband every resource then on purely economic ground then it would not be worth it. Also, they did not have a aircraft that could carry a large enough bomb.

He could have turned the war back germany's way if he head hit our reservoirs and wiped out Manchester/Sheffield.

That raises the question of the suitable men and equipment. We had in place the Lancaster and barnes Wallis was a great designer, also we had expereinced crews and time to train them in their operation, which under ther conditions in Germny would have proved a tad difficult.

Furthermore, the germans were not really used to strategic bombing as we were at the time.

What sane commander doesn't listen to his most experienced generals when they tell him an attack is coming in one place, and sends all of his troops somewhere else?

Where to start. History is replete with examples of leaders going against the advice of their Advisors and generals. The one that springs to mind was macArthurs invasion of Inchon in Korea, the only person who felt that it would work was MacArthur himself, even the USM6, said it could not be mounted.

Hitler was looppy, but he was so far over the sanity horizon come the end that it was a good imitation of sanity.

Strange as it may seem, the same allegation could have been leveled at Churchill, for his actions during WW2.





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[von Poop]

Originally Posted by mosquito617

Uniforms - i don't go with view that he was trying to portray the "Hey! I'm just like you, honest!" view at all. Maybe it was part of the Alpha male thing, but it just doesn't ring that true. I accept that in germany at this time it was normal to wear a uniform, but he wore it nearly 24/7! Where were the comfy slacks and battered old shoes?

I'm with plant pot on the Uniforms, think of it as a time when absolutely everyone wore 'Uniforms' from the wing-collared bank manager to the clog & aproned Mill worker, a vaguely Military Uniform could and did assist in building a perception of solidarity with the masses, who were much more likely to see an air of authority and even 'dash' in such garb, (Seems likely that Hitlerisms aftermath created the modern suspicion of civilians in Uniform.) As for comfy slacks, it isn't a certainty that someone of that era would 'slob out', and with someone holding as hard onto the public Image as Hitler was then every care would be taken to look the part when dealing with squabbling allies and officials, even in private as seen in the home movies.
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.. What a long post about clothes!..

[Kiwiwriter]

Originally Posted by morse1001

I hate to be serious but i said that i had read about it, it does not mean that i actually believe it.

The book that i am reading at the moment, its proped up against by Diddybox so that I can read bits whilst I am on the PC, goes into his known medical and mental health in detail.

Also, veneral diseases in those days were untreatable and so the effects would have been clearly seen on Hilter had he been infected.

Actually, one of the great ironies of the time was that the first effective cure for venereal diseases was created by a Jew.

Also, Hitler did not "chew carpets." That's a misunderstanding of a German word for a guy who gets very angry and yells and screams.

Getting back to Der Fuhrer's health, he was a hypochondriac of the first oder, taking all kinds of pills for his real physical problem...stomach cramps, which led to chronic flatulence. Since he turned off the air in the bunker rooms, his legnthy conferences became odorous ordeals for his staff and courtiers.

Actually, HItler was in good general health until the early 1940s, but he was afraid of the cancer that killed his mother. In 1935, he had a polyp removed frmo his larynx, and it was enign.

However, to defeat his flatulence, he popped all kinds of pills from his quack Dr. Morell, which included bacteria cultivated from human poop, which gave him severe nausea...but did get rid of an annoying leg rash and cut down on his stmoach cramps for a while.

Hitler's health deteriorated like Germany's, as the war droned on. Living a more "spartan" life at various bunkers and FHQs, he became a bunker fanatic, fearing "fresh air poisoning." As the defeats grew worse, so did the stomach cramps. He couldn't go to sleep until 4 or 5 a.m., and woke up around noon.

After 1943, Morell gave Hitler a daily energy-boosting shot, a cocktail of vitamins, glucose, and caffeine, and pills of amphetamines wrapped in gold foil. Morell also tried leeches for Hitler's blood pressure. Hitler gave himself enemas to cut down on constipation.

In early 1943, Hitler devleoped a remor in his left leg and arm, which went into remission after the Attentat on July 20, 1944. It then came back in early 1945, and the tremor spread from his arm to his leg and to his right side. He stooped and shuffled as he walked.

In February 1945, Hitler sufferd a minor stroke. By his final days, Hitler was clutching his shaking arm, dragging his leg, and saliva drooled continuously from his mouth.

[morse1001]

Originally Posted by Kiwiwriter

Actually, one of the great ironies of the time was that the first effective cure for venereal diseases was created by a Jew.

Also, Hitler did not "chew carpets." That's a misunderstanding of a German word for a guy who gets very angry and yells and screams.

Getting back to Der Fuhrer's health, he was a hypochondriac of the first oder, taking all kinds of pills for his real physical problem...stomach cramps, which led to chronic flatulence. Since he turned off the air in the bunker rooms, his legnthy conferences became odorous ordeals for his staff and courtiers.

Actually, HItler was in good general health until the early 1940s, but he was afraid of the cancer that killed his mother. In 1935, he had a polyp removed frmo his larynx, and it was enign.

However, to defeat his flatulence, he popped all kinds of pills from his quack Dr. Morell, which included bacteria cultivated from human poop, which gave him severe nausea...but did get rid of an annoying leg rash and cut down on his stmoach cramps for a while.

Hitler's health deteriorated like Germany's, as the war droned on. Living a more "spartan" life at various bunkers and FHQs, he became a bunker fanatic, fearing "fresh air poisoning." As the defeats grew worse, so did the stomach cramps. He couldn't go to sleep until 4 or 5 a.m., and woke up around noon.

After 1943, Morell gave Hitler a daily energy-boosting shot, a cocktail of vitamins, glucose, and caffeine, and pills of amphetamines wrapped in gold foil. Morell also tried leeches for Hitler's blood pressure. Hitler gave himself enemas to cut down on constipation.

In early 1943, Hitler devleoped a remor in his left leg and arm, which went into remission after the Attentat on July 20, 1944. It then came back in early 1945, and the tremor spread from his arm to his leg and to his right side. He stooped and shuffled as he walked.

In February 1945, Hitler sufferd a minor stroke. By his final days, Hitler was clutching his shaking arm, dragging his leg, and saliva drooled continuously from his mouth.

Dare I say it - but David irvings book, the Diaries of Dr Morrell is very interesting read on the state of Hitlers health and the sort of quackery that Morrell used to dish out to not only Hitler but most of staff.

Morse, my dearest one, we are starting to sound like a married couple here. And without the added benefits .
Alright, I'll step down from this argument, as it's my perosal opinion and therefore i cannot validate it with references. You win this time.
As to Spidge's post about Hitler's health - way too much detail there my boy. I've just had my tea, and i think i may see it again after that one. Cheers.
Kitty

[morse1001]

Originally Posted by mosquito617

Morse, my dearest one, we are starting to sound like a married couple here. And without the added benefits .
Alright, I'll step down from this argument, as it's my perosal opinion and therefore i cannot validate it with references. You win this time.
As to Spidge's post about Hitler's health - way too much detail there my boy. I've just had my tea, and i think i may see it again after that one. Cheers.
Kitty

My dearest Kitty, it is not my intention to have a arguement witg you, merely a civilised discussion between two equals!