VC winner branded 'war criminal' - wore a German paratrooper's smock to dupe snipers - Page 2

51highland · 10-04-2006, 09:39 PM

just e=mailed him, I await a reply!!

Owen · 10-04-2006, 10:18 PM

I too have emailed him.
I expect nothing in my "IN" box from him.
If I do I will post it here.

Gage · 10-04-2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen D

I too have emailed him.
I expect nothing in my "IN" box from him.
If I do I will post it here.

Be interesting. Await developments.

Could be a long wait.

Marina · 11-04-2006, 01:12 AM

He must have saved dozens of Allied lives by taking out those snipers. He deserved his VC

adrian roberts · 11-04-2006, 01:46 AM

The current government of New Zealand has a reputation for extreme political correctness. They have virtually disbanded their armed forces. Anything connected with them is considered ideologically unsound. The concept of heroism is completely alien to them.

If you apply the letter of the law to the what Hulme did it could possibly be labelled deception, but he saved the lives of countless of his comrades while putting his own at extreme risk.

Adrian

11-04-2006, 05:27 AM

Concerning the original issue, I do beleive it qualifies for a spy. I don't say there is anything wrong with espionage or guise in warfare but if you take the chance you are subject to the results. It is highly exploitive to disguise one's self as the enemy. If you do it you assume the consequences. I would only think it a dishonor if he himself had thought it unjust to be treated as a spy had he have been caught. If it was a matter of, I took my chances, I paid the price, then to me he would have died a hero and the enemy did no wrong in executing him. It's certainly no worse than putting grenades under a dead Allied soldier so when his buddies claim his body then they get a surprize.

The Germans did the same things to the US at Bastone, dressing up in American soldier uniforms. We executed them as we should as well. Those are the rules and both sides know it. But it is not an act of cowardice, in fact if anything it is pretty daring if you ask me. I wouldn't have had the guts to do it. But if I did, I would expect execution or I would think the enemy does not give a crap about their own men if they didn't. By the same token should the German government apologize to the people that died at Bastone for their act? I think it's ridiculous.

Take it a step further. Does hiding a tank in a barn that looks docile and peaceful as the enemy is approaching a purfidity? It is just as deceptive. What is more docile than a tree holding a sniper? Is he not even more hidden? Should you say, we can't allow the snipers to hide because it betrays the principle of fair fighting?

If I am not mistaken the Germans were uninvited at Crete right? I think the NZ government should bend over and ask Peter Wills to kiss their patootee rather than apologize for fighting with whatever they had. That would make a good smilie, though I think it might get overused on this site!

I say keep the cross for his creativity if nothing else. You have to admit it was pretty clever. It's war folks. Its not for making friends.

Herroberst · 11-04-2006, 06:20 AM

Sounds like they have that disease called liberalism in NZ as well. I say Cheers, good for him, outsmart the enemy but he took an awful chance of catching friendly fire.

Herroberst · 11-04-2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrian roberts

The current government of New Zealand has a reputation for extreme political correctness. They have virtually disbanded their armed forces. Anything connected with them is considered ideologically unsound. The concept of heroism is completely alien to them.

Big mistake, distances are smaller these days, not bright to not have a big stick. Shows you how apathy will let the bastards take over.

Owen · 11-04-2006, 08:29 AM

Email from Glyn Harper recieved today.

"Dear Owen,

Don't believe all you read in the newspapers. We never called Sgt Hulme a
war criminall at all in our book which I suggest you read.

Regards
Glyn Harper"

So...........was it all a marketing ploy by the publishers?
Even so it still sullies Sgt Hulme VC 's name.

spidge · 11-04-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Clay

This morning's online Telegraph contains the following item about NZ VC winner Sgt A C Hulme - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...C-new_10042006

The authors of a new book suggest that Sgt Hulme's ruse of donning a German para's smock to dupe German snipers was "an act of perfidy under international law", and another NZ academic suggests that Sgt Hulme's actions (killing enemy soldiers while wearing their uniform) were "prima facie a war crime".

Do Forum members believe that Sgt Hulme's disguise was an acceptable action in war? Or is it unarguably against the rules of war?

Do they agree the NZ Govt should now apologise for Sgt Hulme's actions?

Either way, do they agree with his daughter's statement that accusing him of war crimes was "a terrible thing to bring up".

Jim

Academics!!! These people prove my point about some educated imbeciles.

10-04-2006, 09:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
51highland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ipswich Posts: 812	just e=mailed him, I await a reply!! __________________ 51 highland www.keep-em-moving.com Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean (Friends are good in the day of battle) Na diobair caraid's a charraid (Forsake not a friend in the fray) Cuimhnichibh na suinn nach maireann . Mairidh an cliu beo gu brath. (In memory of the Heroes who are no more. May their Fame live on forever)

11-04-2006, 01:46 AM	#15 (permalink)
adrian roberts Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: NW Kent, England Posts: 758	The current government of New Zealand has a reputation for extreme political correctness. They have virtually disbanded their armed forces. Anything connected with them is considered ideologically unsound. The concept of heroism is completely alien to them. If you apply the letter of the law to the what Hulme did it could possibly be labelled deception, but he saved the lives of countless of his comrades while putting his own at extreme risk. Adrian __________________ for heathen heart that puts its trust in reeking tube and iron shard all valiant dust that builds on dust and guarding, calls not thee to guard thy mercy on thy people, Lord (Kipling)

11-04-2006, 05:27 AM	#16 (permalink)
jimbotosome Guest Posts: n/a	Concerning the original issue, I do beleive it qualifies for a spy. I don't say there is anything wrong with espionage or guise in warfare but if you take the chance you are subject to the results. It is highly exploitive to disguise one's self as the enemy. If you do it you assume the consequences. I would only think it a dishonor if he himself had thought it unjust to be treated as a spy had he have been caught. If it was a matter of, I took my chances, I paid the price, then to me he would have died a hero and the enemy did no wrong in executing him. It's certainly no worse than putting grenades under a dead Allied soldier so when his buddies claim his body then they get a surprize. The Germans did the same things to the US at Bastone, dressing up in American soldier uniforms. We executed them as we should as well. Those are the rules and both sides know it. But it is not an act of cowardice, in fact if anything it is pretty daring if you ask me. I wouldn't have had the guts to do it. But if I did, I would expect execution or I would think the enemy does not give a crap about their own men if they didn't. By the same token should the German government apologize to the people that died at Bastone for their act? I think it's ridiculous. Take it a step further. Does hiding a tank in a barn that looks docile and peaceful as the enemy is approaching a purfidity? It is just as deceptive. What is more docile than a tree holding a sniper? Is he not even more hidden? Should you say, we can't allow the snipers to hide because it betrays the principle of fair fighting? If I am not mistaken the Germans were uninvited at Crete right? I think the NZ government should bend over and ask Peter Wills to kiss their patootee rather than apologize for fighting with whatever they had. That would make a good smilie, though I think it might get overused on this site! I say keep the cross for his creativity if nothing else. You have to admit it was pretty clever. It's war folks. Its not for making friends. Last edited by jimbotosome; 11-04-2006 at 05:32 AM.

11-04-2006, 06:20 AM	#17 (permalink)
Herroberst Very Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the tree line Posts: 1,160	Sounds like they have that disease called liberalism in NZ as well. I say Cheers, good for him, outsmart the enemy but he took an awful chance of catching friendly fire. __________________ Coir a glaive *Nemo me impune lacessit*

11-04-2006, 08:29 AM	#19 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 9,306	Email from Glyn Harper recieved today. "Dear Owen, Don't believe all you read in the newspapers. We never called Sgt Hulme a war criminall at all in our book which I suggest you read. Regards Glyn Harper" So...........was it all a marketing ploy by the publishers? Even so it still sullies Sgt Hulme VC 's name. Last edited by Owen; 11-04-2006 at 08:57 AM.

10-04-2006, 10:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 9,306	I too have emailed him. I expect nothing in my "IN" box from him. If I do I will post it here.

11-04-2006, 01:12 AM	#14 (permalink)
Marina Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 201	He must have saved dozens of Allied lives by taking out those snipers. He deserved his VC

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