Hitlerite obsession

[von Poop]

There was an interesting little chat program on BBC TV(I think) last night.
On it David Starkey and Anthony Beevor (with sue Perkins and another chap) discussed whether we're all 'absolutely obsessed' with Hitler and Hitlerism. (I think inspired by Hitlers passing birthday.) Starkey was his provocative self and claimed there was absolutely no need for Yet another book about Hitler and expressed his horror at yet more archival material on ww2 coming to light. Beevor was more conciliatory yet thought the point had some merit. He also said a Guards Veteran aquaintance of his claimed the German Army weren't much to look at, rather grubby in fact, or percieved as anything more 'stylish' or even 'attractive' until Hollywood took over a decade later. Beevor also touched on the bother and even 'abuse' that modern Germans had encountered in the UK in relation to the second war. It was interesting stuff but i'm still looking for the transcript I believe the BBC makes available.

Are we all simply obsessed with the Nazi's, Hitler in particular, and the second world war?
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Cheers,
Adam.


(JUST EDITING ON: The Program was in fact 'The Last word' on Channel 4)

[plant-pilot]

If there weren't at least some people out there 'obsessed' with it, the only thing most people would know about it was that Hitler was German and we were at war with them. There's far more to it than that and society as a whole has to remember what was so close to happening in europe's recent past.

Besides, isn't the point that if nobody was interested the BBC wouldn't waste it's money on the program? And if the interest is there, why shouldn't it be discussed?

[Gage]

I wouldn't say I'm obsessed but I am very interested in most things WWII. Of course there going to be people who take things too far, there always is.

So i should stop wearing the WRAF uniform then?
There are obsessives in every area of life, just that those in the WW2 arena tend to take it way too far. However, having a healthy interest in such a major part of our histories, and one that changed the world irrevocably and is still having an effect is no bad thing. If you understand the cause you have a chance of mending it.

[Kiwiwriter]

Well, he's the poster boy for unrefined evil and unrestrained murder, so the obsession with him will never really go away.

The difference between him and other tyrants is that Hitler was captured on radio and newsreels, and there's plenty of footage of him delivering one of his patented tirades to vast and adoring crowds at some Nuremberg Party Rally.

There is also the unending puzzle...what made him tick?

How did he do it? Why did he do it? Why did this lousy artist and common laborer have such a grip on Germany? How did this nut with the dustbug-moustache take over Germany and all Europe? What was the source of his virulent anti-Semitism.

Other villains are easier to explain...Stalin the paranoid. Idi Amin the syphilitic. Duvalier, Marcos, and Honecker were cynical greedheads. Mafiosi are just greedy thugs. Jeffrey Dahmer was a psychotic. Osama Bin Laden is a religious zealot. But Hitler is harder to figure out.

There is also a "Hitler industry," which was seen at its high point (or nadir) when his faked diaries landed on the scene in 1983. Newsweek magazine had the gall to say that it didn't matter if the diaries were real...as they would be a chance for people to confront their fears about themselves and each other.

The magazine took a beating for suggesting that Adolf's intimate words were a chance to practice pop psychology, and it "didn't matter" if they were real or fake. But for two weeks, Adolf's forged words occupied the world media stage. I remember how the supermarket tabloids, holding 50-year-old copyrighted articles in their files, dusted off first-person ghostwritten pieces by Hitler's photographer, maid, and butler, on the inner workings of the Reich Chancellery, and slapped them on the cover as if they too were startling new discoveries.

Most accounts of the Battle of Berlin seem to focus on Hitler's last week in the bunker, which is unfair to the German and Soviet troops and Berlin citizens caught in that deathtrap. We have also seen a small industry of books and articles about Hitler escaping the bunker, and the various survival myths. Bormann, too.

Another factor in new stuff about Hitler has been the efforts to correct the errors and weaknesses of the earlier biographies, like Alan Bullock's (1952) or David Irving's (the acolyte). Ian Kershaw is about the best we have.

So Adolf is a permanent feature of our society. He's an unsinkable subject, like the Titanic. He refuses to die, like Custer standing on that hill.

And 60 years later, Mel Brooks won 11 Tony Awards by making Adolf look stupid on the Broadway stage.

I don't think we'll ever learn anything new abuot him, but people will keep trying to explain him.

[Warulfsdottyr]

Originally Posted by plant-pilot

If there weren't at least some people out there 'obsessed' with it, the only thing most people would know about it was that Hitler was German and we were at war with them. There's far more to it than that and society as a whole has to remember what was so close to happening in europe's recent past.

Besides, isn't the point that if nobody was interested the BBC wouldn't waste it's money on the program? And if the interest is there, why shouldn't it be discussed?

hitler wasn german ! he was austrian and got his german pass in 1933 when he became president !!
the austrians sent us this crazy guy because of 1866 (german humor)

he was born in braunau and his real name was Adolf Schicklgruber- he changed his name later .

[Warulfsdottyr]

Originally Posted by Kiwiwriter

Well, he's the poster boy for unrefined evil and unrestrained murder, so the obsession with him will never really go away.

The difference between him and other tyrants is that Hitler was captured on radio and newsreels, and there's plenty of footage of him delivering one of his patented tirades to vast and adoring crowds at some Nuremberg Party Rally.

There is also the unending puzzle...what made him tick?

How did he do it? Why did he do it? Why did this lousy artist and common laborer have such a grip on Germany? How did this nut with the dustbug-moustache take over Germany and all Europe? What was the source of his virulent anti-Semitism.

Other villains are easier to explain...Stalin the paranoid. Idi Amin the syphilitic. Duvalier, Marcos, and Honecker were cynical greedheads. Mafiosi are just greedy thugs. Jeffrey Dahmer was a psychotic. Osama Bin Laden is a religious zealot. But Hitler is harder to figure out.

There is also a "Hitler industry," which was seen at its high point (or nadir) when his faked diaries landed on the scene in 1983. Newsweek magazine had the gall to say that it didn't matter if the diaries were real...as they would be a chance for people to confront their fears about themselves and each other.

The magazine took a beating for suggesting that Adolf's intimate words were a chance to practice pop psychology, and it "didn't matter" if they were real or fake. But for two weeks, Adolf's forged words occupied the world media stage. I remember how the supermarket tabloids, holding 50-year-old copyrighted articles in their files, dusted off first-person ghostwritten pieces by Hitler's photographer, maid, and butler, on the inner workings of the Reich Chancellery, and slapped them on the cover as if they too were startling new discoveries.

Most accounts of the Battle of Berlin seem to focus on Hitler's last week in the bunker, which is unfair to the German and Soviet troops and Berlin citizens caught in that deathtrap. We have also seen a small industry of books and articles about Hitler escaping the bunker, and the various survival myths. Bormann, too.

Another factor in new stuff about Hitler has been the efforts to correct the errors and weaknesses of the earlier biographies, like Alan Bullock's (1952) or David Irving's (the acolyte). Ian Kershaw is about the best we have.

So Adolf is a permanent feature of our society. He's an unsinkable subject, like the Titanic. He refuses to die, like Custer standing on that hill.

And 60 years later, Mel Brooks won 11 Tony Awards by making Adolf look stupid on the Broadway stage.

I don't think we'll ever learn anything new abuot him, but people will keep trying to explain him.

maybe his anti-semitism was caused due to :
I read that the doctor who combated the sickness/cancer or whatever of his mom which died when he was a youth
or
his officer in ww1 did not let him reach an higher rank because of "führungsuntauglichkeit"
they both were jews

[plant-pilot]

Originally Posted by Warulfsdottyr

hitler wasn german ! he was austrian and got his german pass in 1933 when he became president !!

Um.... my point exactly!

[Kiwiwriter]

Originally Posted by Warulfsdottyr

maybe his anti-semitism was caused due to :
I read that the doctor who combated the sickness/cancer or whatever of his mom which died when he was a youth
or
his officer in ww1 did not let him reach an higher rank because of "führungsuntauglichkeit"

Actually, he treated Dr. Bloch very well, letting him flee Austria. His resentment toward the Jews seems to have taken root in Vienna, when he could not enter the arts academy, and began reading anti-Semitic pamphlets. He blamed the Jews on his failures as an artist.

[Owen]

I think we have forgotten he was a human being the same as us.
He has become something more.
We have put on him all that is evil and wrong with us humans. A symbol of living evil. Almost as if he was the living embodiment of the Devil.
For that reason we will be obsessed with him.
As for his War Machine, there in a massive industry in the worship of it.
Look at the books constantly being pumped out.
Try and find a good History of a less well known British unit, bit of a struggle.
Look for a history of The 45th SS Ukrainian Toilet Cleaning Kompanie in the Summer of 1943 at about 2.30 in the afternoon oh yes loads of stuff.
I agree with Von Poop, we are obsessed.
Good? mmmm depends on what a particular individual uses that knowledge of Hitler and the Nazis for.