French Fighting ability

[4th wilts]

the french airforce certainly put up a good fight,apparently.lee.

[Arsenal vg-33]

There were plenty of examples of French bravery and sacrifice in the 1940. It's just unfortunate that many choose to listen to their inner bigotry/prejudices and historical innaccuracies to make their flawed conclusions. Also, there is not as much interest generated by 1939-1940 than there is with 1944-45, and very few French publications on 1940 unit/regimental actions of the May-June battle have been translated into English. Lastly, I think a lot of attention has been given to their commanders who were inept at controlling the situation as opposed to the actual soldiers in the field.

But the facts are there and they remain: for all the flaws and disasters which befell the French during those dark 6 weeks of 1940, they have the right be proud of a very many units/regiments/divisions which fought bravely and courageously under the very worst of circumstances. They didn't lose approximately 92,000 KIAs by running away.

[Arsenal vg-33]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

i reckon that when the french guy surrendered in that railcoach in compiegne,the nation had the franco/prussian defeat still in the nations psyche.maybe they thought o.k,we will lose alsace-lorraine,but that wont be too bad.when they did give up,vichy was a large area,could france have continued to the very last bullet.yours,lee.

That is an interesting question, and one which I've wondered about myself. Before learning of the details of the Armistice, I do wonder if the French expected there would be a change of territorial ownership, in France and in the colonies, followed by large sums of reparations and perhaps a temporary occupation of sorts? Certainly, indefinite occupation by a foreign power bent on Eurasian domination and using racial superiority as one of it's primary justifications, was surely something new.

[CROONAERT]

Originally Posted by Owen D

, the war had been lost by their politicians & Generals not the French soldier.

Couldn't agree more! After reading several accounts by French soldiers lifted off the beaches of "Dunkirk", they were saddened (and surprised) that they were being taken out of the war (no matter how temporarily) as they believed that they would (and should) be getting transported out of the trap and being re-landed further down the coast to continue the fight. hardly the mentality of a defeated army.

Originally Posted by 4th wilts
i reckon that when the french guy surrendered in that railcoach in compiegne,the nation had the franco/prussian defeat still in the nations psyche.maybe they thought o.k,we will lose alsace-lorraine,but that wont be too bad.

The memory of the defeat of 1871 was very much in the psyche of most Frenchmen - after all that was what was behind much of the ideas behind the suicidal attacks of 1914. Hatred became a very underestimated emotion in the France of the post-1871 years as it ran a lot deeper than "just" losing a bit of land of having to pay reparations. The country was almost crippled and the effects were felt down to the lowliest peasant with civil war almost being the outcome (hence the recall of German troops). There's no way that a Frenchman in 1940 would have seen surrender to the Germans as an "easy option" - they'd been there before!

Dave

[4th wilts]

but the french were certainly used to fighting prussia-germany,three times in 70 odd years.what i want to know is why,if the hatred ran so deep,was the vichy area so large.why did they not fight to the bitter end.yours,lee.

[4th wilts]

i cannot see churchill sueing for peace,halfway up the midlands of england.yours,lee.

[Paul Reed]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

i cannot see churchill sueing for peace,halfway up the midlands of england.yours,lee.

Well, that is pure speculation on your part.

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Exactly! It might well have been taken out of his hands by that stage. Halifax could well have been Prime Minister if that had happened. But this is all conjecture.

[Owen]

Originally Posted by 4th wilts

but the french were certainly used to fighting prussia-germany,three times in 70 odd years.what i want to know is why,if the hatred ran so deep,was the vichy area so large.why did they not fight to the bitter end.yours,lee.

Because they came to a point where they were out manouvred and had absolutely no reserves left.
Some of the French Government wanted to continue the fight but other parts wanted an end to the bloodshed as the war was effectively lost anyway and they didn't want to see France laid waste and her manhood destroyed for no gain.

[4th wilts]

i am in no way calling french cowards.do you think the maginot line made france complacent at all,from the government down to the generals and so on.yours,lee.