Dresden: barbarism and vengeance

T34. I understand your initial post. On the surface of it Dresden was a massacre perpetrated by the RAF. I thought that, until i looked a little closer. Dresden was a centre of manufacturing. Over a hundred factories all working towards the war effort, with everything from bomb timers to optical components.
Thousands of troops were stationed there with their artillery waiting to move to the Eastern Front. I understand two major railways met here at massive marshalling yards, where more artillery was waiting to be moved (sounds like Crewe).
The conditions were perfect for a bombing raid.
And just because Dresden had not been hit before, who said it wouldn't be at some point?
The city was a very viable military target and so it was bound to be bombed at some point. What real reason was there to destroy Coventry and York? They received 5-star ratings in a German guide book. That's why.
So yes, the loss of beautiful buildinss and museums breaks my heart, it really does, but the destruction of the Nazi war machine does not.
Dresden was going down at some point, it just happened to be the 'perfect' bomber raid.
I hope this answers your question.
Kitty

[spidge]

Further to Gibbo's post, this is the excerpt from Frederick Tayor's book that I posted in November.

A new book by Frederick Taylor clears up a few myths about Dresden. It was a legitimate military target.

Taylor has benefited from the opening up of the former East German archives and, as a German speaker, he has been able to research his subject thoroughly. He has looked at the history of the city (large parts were destroyed by war several times before 1945) and its social and cultural background. The myth has it that Dresden was full of harmless, arts-loving innocents concerned only with manufacturing luxury goods such as cameras and china. In fact, Dresden was a Nazi stronghold before Hitler even took power. Martin Mutschmann became the regime's longest-serving Gauleiter (governor), and one of its most brutal. Anti-Semitism was a popular policy pursued with gusto. In 1938 the people of Dresden sacked the synagogue, one of the city's most beautiful and arresting buildings. And though the city was known around the world as "Florence on the Elbe", by 1945 it was home to no fewer than 127 factories employed in war work – work that occupied the vast majority of the population and that, in the context of the war, made it a legitimate military target.

By February 1945, Dresden had also become an important railhead, with hundreds of thousands of troops heading to the rapidly approaching Russian front - and it was for this reason, officially, that Dresden was bombed: we were helping the Russians. As Taylor proves, the Nazis were every bit as keen on wiping out cities as the Allies, but by 1945 we were better at it. Over Dresden, the conditions were perfect: the anti-aircraft defences had largely been removed, the sky was clear, and the targeting as precise as the technology of the day allowed.

[viper_1967]

Originally Posted by mosquito617

T34. I understand your initial post. On the surface of it Dresden was a massacre perpetrated by the RAF. I thought that, until i looked a little closer. Dresden was a centre of manufacturing. Over a hundred factories all working towards the war effort, with everything from bomb timers to optical components.
Thousands of troops were stationed there with their artillery waiting to move to the Eastern Front. I understand two major railways met here at massive marshalling yards, where more artillery was waiting to be moved (sounds like Crewe).
The conditions were perfect for a bombing raid.
And just because Dresden had not been hit before, who said it wouldn't be at some point?
The city was a very viable military target and so it was bound to be bombed at some point. What real reason was there to destroy Coventry and York? They received 5-star ratings in a German guide book. That's why.
So yes, the loss of beautiful buildinss and museums breaks my heart, it really does, but the destruction of the Nazi war machine does not.
Dresden was going down at some point, it just happened to be the 'perfect' bomber raid.
I hope this answers your question.
Kitty

I respectfully disagree.
Dresden was gutted in the city certer where the civilians lived. Dresden like many other German cities had the factories in the surrounding subburbs(very little damage).If the marshalling yards where a viable target then why where trains running within a week?
I offer this, Dresden was firebombed to impress the advancing Russian army in order to keep them in check.

Originally Posted by viper_1967

I respectfully disagree.
Dresden was gutted in the city certer where the civilians lived. Dresden like many other German cities had the factories in the surrounding subburbs(very little damage).If the marshalling yards where a viable target then why where trains running within a week?
I offer this, Dresden was firebombed to impress the advancing Russian army in order to keep them in check.

Maybe so, i haven't yet had time to go into the raid in great detail. But that is also an argument for the A bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, isnt it?
However, may i point out that the Ruhr valley was up and operating at full efficieny within 6 weeks of the Dams Raid.
I still stand by the fact that just because we hadn't hit Dresden before didn't mean we wouldn't. However i never have agreed with deliberately starting a firestorm, but that was not down to the aircrews.

[viper_1967]

Originally Posted by mosquito617

Maybe so, i haven't yet had time to go into the raid in great detail. But that is also an argument for the A bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, isnt it?
However, may i point out that the Ruhr valley was up and operating at full efficieny within 6 weeks of the Dams Raid.
I still stand by the fact that just because we hadn't hit Dresden before didn't mean we wouldn't. However i never have agreed with deliberately starting a firestorm, but that was not down to the aircrews.

A good read is Apocalypse 1945 by David Irving.
I do not beleive that Dresden is an argument for A bombs in Japan. The A bombs finally convinced the the japs to give up the fight, preventing a landing and many casualties on both sides.
Dresden to me sums up the entire war, a total waste.

[viper_1967]

What is the general feeling in Germany about Dresden today?
About the war in general, is it time to forgive(but never forget)?
I hear they may have recently made a movie about Dresden and that it's from the same director as Downfall(2005), is this true?

[von Poop]

Though interestingly it seems to be Irving who pushed the inflated death figures for Dresden claiming some sort of 'false victim' status for the town.
I say again this has all been thrashed out on here before, It was also inevitable it would again turn towards the Atom Bomb.
T34's provocative statement has succeeded in opening up this old argument again. I suspect that was the Intention, It'll be the old 'Atom Bomb' question next.

Well done to Bomber Harris and the crews for an excellently executed raid at a time of Total War.
Reap the Whirlwind.
And so on.....

And Viper, if you read the other threads on this you'll see some Germanic input

[redcoat]

Originally Posted by viper_1967

I respectfully disagree.
Dresden was gutted in the city certer where the civilians lived. Dresden like many other German cities had the factories in the surrounding subburbs(very little damage).

In Europe in the mid 20th century, people didn't have mass car ownership, so they didn't have high mobility. People tended to live close to their places of work. Also industrial estates are a post-war development, before then factories tended to be located all over towns.
My home town is a perfect example of this, nearly all the old mills are in the center of town (now mostly converted into apartments)

If the marshalling yards where a viable target then why where trains running within a week?

Railway yards are easily repairable, but even a week was important to the logistical well-being of the German armies in the East.

I offer this, Dresden was firebombed to impress the advancing Russian army in order to keep them in check.

Actually, a lot of people 'offer' this senario, but it isn't true.
The city was bombed to help the Soviets. If the British did want to 'impress' the Soviets, it was only to 'impress' them on what good allies we were.

[redcoat]

Originally Posted by viper_1967

A good read is Apocalypse 1945 by David Irving.

No, it is biased work of fiction by a convicted neo-nazi.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by redcoat

No, it is biased work of fiction by a convicted neo-nazi.

Well said Redcoat.

It seems the word has still not got around regarding David Irving!