Dresden: barbarism and vengeance

[T34]

beautiful city of museums and libraries was annihilated, about 100 000 civillians killed - act of barbarism, unnecessary and pointless brutality, revenge taken on those who were innocent.
why???

[Owen]

This has been discussed here before at great length.
Check out this thread.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-eur...hlight=dresden

I don't think we need another one T34. Add your thoughts to the other post.

[sapper]

Because they wanted "Total War" All over Europe they killed maimed and tortured. The were responsible for the death of at least 60 million. Thei behaviour in war, was in case anyone forgets... was barbaric in the extreme. Any one in any doubt? I can relate those crimes.
But mainly because Goebbels called for "Total war" that meant no mercy for man woman or child. His call for Total war was acclaimed by the screams of encouragemnt by the German people.

So they got "Total War" so stop moaning they got away comparitively free considering what the Germans did,
Ask how does it compare with what the Criminal Division did to Warsaw.

He that sows the wind reaps the whirlwind...Much of Germany was untouched..They are very lucky, they should have paid the full price.
Sapper

[von Poop]

And here:
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/general...-former-9.html
from page 9 turned into a Dresden 'discussion' Worth reading before plunging on with such a provocative title.
This has been thrashed out many times before.
(and I'm with Sapper! as reading previous threads confirms.)

[Rich Payne]

Who started the whole wretched business ? By the time Dresden was bombed, my parents (and millions of others) had endured more than four years of bombing and V-Weapon raids.

If I have any doubts about the justification of bombing raids on Germany, even in the light of modern revisionism, then it is only because of the losses to the Bomber Command crews involved.

Germany asked for and got Total War. When they were winning they had no doubts. Only the complete and utter destruction of the system that began it all was going to put an end to it.

There is some dispute over the figure of 100,000 dead, but even so I would suggest that it is no worse to die as one of a large number than as a single casualty. I know too little about the initial attacks on Poland but tomorrow is the 66th anniversary of the unprovoked attack on neutral Belgium.

The Germans had no problem with bombing towns and civilian refugees and within weeks were murdering civilians in cold blood.

I strongly believe that the actions of 60+ years ago can only be judged by understanding the state of mind of those involved.

It was a fight to the death and I, for one, am glad it ended the way it did.

Rich.

[Owen]

In April 1937, Guernica was the first city to be deliberately targeted for aerial bombing. Guernica was the ancient capital of the Basques - a group who had withstood the advances of the army since the Spanish Civil War begun in 1936. The region's resilient stand was punished by Franco when he allowed the unprotected city to be bombed by Hitler's air force.

In 1935, General Erich Luderndorff had published "The Total War" (Die Totale Krieg) in which he argued that modern war was all encompassing and that no-one could or should necessarily be spared by the military. He argued that civilians were combatants and should be treated accordingly. His ideas were backed up in Fascist Italy where General Giulio Douhet produced a pamphlet which stated that an army's advance might be suitably assisted by targeting civilians whose panic would severely hamper the ability of the enemy's army to mobilise itself. Such panic could be delivered by "air-delivered terror".

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/guernica.htm


T34 who started it?
I know I said we didn't need another discuccion but I couldn't help it, I had to say that.

[Herroberst]

I understand your point T-34. Strategic Bombing is an awful thing. I remember Germans talking about the Hamburg bombings, people running around like torches burning alive, they went to jump in the river and it was filled with fuel from destroyed docked barges and boats so then jumped into hell swam a few strokes burning and then died. Awful thing war, that's why it's best not to have it.

But the funny thing was the Germans never felt they would be bombed back after they did all that bombing until the wake up call by the RAF in 1942.

If you start a war you should expect the consequences.

[T34]

Originally Posted by sapper

Because they wanted "Total War" All over Europe they killed maimed and tortured. The were responsible for the death of at least 60 million. Thei behaviour in war, was in case anyone forgets... was barbaric in the extreme. Any one in any doubt? I can relate those crimes.
But mainly because Goebbels called for "Total war" that meant no mercy for man woman or child. His call for Total war was acclaimed by the screams of encouragemnt by the German people.
So they got "Total War" so stop moaning they got away comparitively free considering what the Germans did,
Ask how does it compare with what the Criminal Division did to Warsaw.
He that sows the wind reaps the whirlwind...Much of Germany was untouched..They are very lucky, they should have paid the full price.
Sapper

so, do you mean that western allies' mentality didnt differ much from that of nazi.

[sapper]

No T34, all it does is show how little understanding of war you have. When you are trying to put down a monster, then all means are used. If the whole of Germany had been laid waste it would still hardly equal what they did.
Sapper

[Gibbo]

The most recent English language book on Dresden, by Frederick Taylor, says that 25-40,000 people were killed. It quotes a German language work by Gotz Bergander, a survivor of the raid, as claiming 40,000 & Friedrich Reichert of the Dresden City Museum as estimating 25,000.

Taylor argues that Dresden did contain a significant number of military targets such as armament factories & railway marshalling yards. The raid caused more casualties than other ones because a number of factors came together to make it so:
1. Incompetence and/or corruption by local Nazi leaders meant that air raid precautions were inadequate.
2. As Dresden had suffered few raids, the local emergency services were inexperienced.
3. Dresden had few air defences but this doesn't mean that it wasn't a military target, merely that Germany couldn't defend everywhere in 1945 & prioritised other cities.
4. Atmospheric conditions favoured fire bombing.
5. Very little went wrong for the bombers.