sabotage in WWII

[von Poop]

Originally Posted by laufer

Terror that was a part of German antipartisan strategy was a major question for all responsible underground movements. But I wouldn’t be so skeptic about an impact of sabotage and partisan activity. Consider thousands of damaged or destroyed locomotives, platforms, trucks, engines, shells, grenades, cut communication lines, intelligence information gathered by members of resistance etc, etc. And don’t forget about precious time – something extremely important for Germany.

In a similar vein to my reply to Spidge,
I couldn't deny that damage was done but I think generally it's effects were more of a boon to morale than real damage to the Enemy. As has been said the information from resistance groups was largely seen as untrustworthy and as for time it is debatable that good work was done in delaying the German advance to Normandy but the SOE, OSS etc. had a hell of a time coordinating this activity and seem to feel much more could have been done. and do the results sit well in balance with the response they provoked from The Nazi's?

[spidge]

Sorry Von Poop you misinterpreted as I never said "frontline troops" but "all" the areas that were required to deal with these threats "behind the lines". These had to be increasingly bolstered to keep pace and counteract this activity.

As the German machine "owned" most of Europe, they could not reciprocate on an equal scale to allied areas.

[Gotthard Heinrici]

As regards partisans the Russian partisans should also receive mention. Up to a quarter of a million partisans were operating in what is now Belarus. Whilst their effectiveness may be questioned they tied down numerous German formations most notably 8th SS Kavallerie Divison "Florian Geyer" which operated in the Pripet Marshes.

[von Poop]

As an aside, does anyone know if the magnificent Nancy wake or 'White mouse' is still with us? I remember her selling her medals and the last reference I can find in a quick web-shufti is to her recieving the Honour and pension from Australia.

[spidge]

I understand she is living in England with "accommodation and spending money" being supplied by no other than Prince Charles.

She would be 91 or 92?

[laufer]

Originally Posted by Gotthard Heinrici

As regards partisans the Russian partisans should also receive mention. Up to a quarter of a million partisans were operating in what is now Belarus. Whilst their effectiveness may be questioned they tied down numerous German formations most notably 8th SS Kavallerie Divison "Florian Geyer" which operated in the Pripet Marshes.

Interesting is that all of these jagdkommandos, bandenkampfverbändes and other anti-partisan forces were often supported by eastern volunteer formations.

[Kiwiwriter]

Originally Posted by laufer

Interesting is that all of these jagdkommandos, bandenkampfverbändes and other anti-partisan forces were often supported by eastern volunteer formations.

Those were the "Hiwis," or "Hilfsfreiwilliger," who came from Soviet POWs, who signed on with the Nazis either to oppose Stalin or get themselves out of the horrific POW camps. The Germans later fielded whole battalions of "Osttruppen," mostly against the Western forces, as well as Yugoslavian guerrillas. They also created the RONA Army under General Vlasov.

There's a lot more on this, but I don't have it at hand at the moment.

[laufer]

Originally Posted by Von Poop

Trouble is it was only post '43 with the introduction of the STO in France (which swelled resistance numbers far more than any ideological wish to fight Germany) that this was really the case. Up until then the appropriate Garrison deployed for policing any occupied area was quite capable of dealing with most resistance without the need for any real drain on 'frontline quality' troops.

As an example, this is a OoB of one of the biggest anti-partisan operations in Poland Sturmwind II (June 1944):

154th Reserve Division
174th Reserve Division
318th Regt. of 213th Security Division
115th Landesschutz Regiment
4th SS Police Regiment
Gendarmerie Batallion 1 (mot.),
elements of Kalmücken-Kavallerie-Korps,
air support: 6 Ju 87 Stuka bombers and air-recon plane.
25-30 000 men (against 4500-5000 Polish and Soviet partisans).

As you can see, its reserve or police forces, but from time to time, even Waffen SS units, like SS Viking, were involved.

[plant-pilot]

I feel that it's the case that the reserve units made much more brutal anti-partisan units than the SS. It's the case that if you are strong, have a reputation for being a good soldier, there is less need to prove yourself when it's not really needed.

The "Osttruppen" had to be more brutal to prove their loyalty and that they were as good as the SS. Like a schoolyard bully, if you have limited power you use it to the maximum in order to keep the weaker kids in control and look strong to those actually stronger than you.

It's sad, but it seems to be human nature.