Germany wins WW1

[drgslyr]

I was thinking, might the scenario have been better if Germany had won World War I? Look at the advantages: Hitler would never have come to power, with the result that WWII would not have taken place. Nuclear power might still be a technology of the future (of course, many technologies like computers, radar, jet power, etc., would also be decades behind or non-existent). The UK would more than likely have retained control of most of its territories, thus retaining a foothold in areas of the globe that have since become highly unstable. It is easy to imagine that Germany might have become an aggresive-expansionist empire, but I think that notion stems more from the political view of Germany in 1939 than the Germany of 1914. The French landscape would of course be altered, but I reserve judgement as to whether that belongs in the negative or positive category.

By contrast, there is no doubt in my mind that the world is better off with Germany having lost World War II.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by drgslyr

I was thinking, might the scenario have been better if Germany had won World War I? Look at the advantages: Hitler would never have come to power, with the result that WWII would not have taken place. Nuclear power might still be a technology of the future (of course, many technologies like computers, radar, jet power, etc., would also be decades behind or non-existent). The UK would more than likely have retained control of most of its territories, thus retaining a foothold in areas of the globe that have since become highly unstable. It is easy to imagine that Germany might have become an aggresive-expansionist empire, but I think that notion stems more from the political view of Germany in 1939 than the Germany of 1914. The French landscape would of course be altered, but I reserve judgement as to whether that belongs in the negative or positive category.

By contrast, there is no doubt in my mind that the world is better off with Germany having lost World War II.

An overly strong Germany may have threatened the Soviet Union and a similar "European" war may have resulted.

What if's are interesting however there are too many open ended possibilities here to comprehend.

[jacobtowne]

It is easy to imagine that Germany might have become an aggresive-expansionist empire, but I think that notion stems more from the political view of Germany in 1939 than the Germany of 1914.

Agreed. With Russia as its eternal bogeyman, Germany in 1914 sought to create a European Union 80 years ahead of its time by uniting itself with France.
Had the British stayed home in August, there would have been no WWI. It would have been a continental war, rather than a world war, and Paris likely would have fallen in a matter of weeks.
At least that's the thesis of Niall Ferguson in The Pity of War.

The consequences of Britain's declining to intervene are mind-boggling.

JT

[von Poop]

Interesting thought, one for the ww1'ites really. What about the Imperial posessions? I'd have thought the loss of African/Eastern chunks of the Empire could have been rather desperate for Great Britain, a sort of accelerated Suez process.

[Harry Ree]

Originally Posted by drgslyr

I was thinking, might the scenario have been better if Germany had won World War I? Look at the advantages: Hitler would never have come to power, with the result that WWII would not have taken place. Nuclear power might still be a technology of the future (of course, many technologies like computers, radar, jet power, etc., would also be decades behind or non-existent). The UK would more than likely have retained control of most of its territories, thus retaining a foothold in areas of the globe that have since become highly unstable. It is easy to imagine that Germany might have become an aggresive-expansionist empire, but I think that notion stems more from the political view of Germany in 1939 than the Germany of 1914. The French landscape would of course be altered, but I reserve judgement as to whether that belongs in the negative or positive category.

By contrast, there is no doubt in my mind that the world is better off with Germany having lost World War II.

What you are suggesting is the continuation of the First Reich,the German state formed by the the amalgamation of the German states forged by Bismark in 1870 and defeated by the Allied Powers in 1918.

Continuing under the stewardship of Wilhelm 11, (the Kaiser ),the German state had continued vision of "Drang nach Osten", the "Drive to the East". The Kaiser had an aggressive colonial policy in his version of "Drang nach Osten" and urged penitration into the Far East,the South seas,the near and Middle East and Africa.He also wished to lay an overland route to Bagdad with a Berlin-Bagdad railway as a stepping stone to India to circumvent the importance of the British key to India,the Suez Canal.He clearly wished to compete with the British on the Indian sub continent.

The "Drang nach Osten" had always been in the heart of the Germans for a 1000 years as they sought territory in the East with the high point of colonisation being the drive of the Teutonic Knights in the 13th and 14th centuries into the Polish kingdom of that era.The drive southeast resulted in German expansion into southern Russia where many German families settled and were later to be told they were Germans when it suited Hitler for them to be drawn into the German "family".

The involvement in, and defeat of the Kaiser's Germany in the Great War prevented this policy bearing fruition and the result was that Germany lost all of her African colonies,South sea colonies and some of her eastern territory.("The bastards of Versailles" as Hitler dubbed Poland )

Hitler in his Mein Kampf made it clear that he wished to adopt again "Drang nach Ostern" but with a fundamental change.He dismissed the effort to claim or reclaim African territory and declared that Germany must seek lebensraum solely in Europe and eastwards.His, would be the march of the path of the Teutonic Knights and the goal was Russia whose south east territory would provide the daily bread and industry of his Greater Germany.

If Germany had won the Great War,then with its expansionist policies it would have eventually conflicted with Japan who post Great War had the policy of removing European influence from South East Asia and the Pacific.Moreover,it is difficult to accept that the US would not have been powerful enough to recognise that this new balance of power would be detrimental to their interests.

It has to be said that Hitler's defeat in the Second World War finally dismantled German militarism and terminated her vision of "Drang nach Osten" no matter what form it took.

[Cpl Rootes]

Have you read the 'What if' books? In them a collection of historians wirte what may have happened if different historical situations had turned out differantly.

[Herroberst]

This brings up the old view that the World Wars were just one big conflict. It would have been much better had the Imperial German Army won WWI. Whole generations lost in WWII would have survived. Communism may have been crushed before it spread throughout the world as the number one killer of mankind. Because of war, would the Influenza have killed more than the 6,000,000? The disease may have had more opportunity to spread within Russia. It was mostly British and Americans that were infected but with a longer war that may have changed.

An interesting topic indeed...

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Herr Oberst

This brings up the old view that the World Wars were just one big conflict. It would have been much better had the Imperial German Army won WWI. Whole generations lost in WWII would have survived. Communism may have been crushed before it spread throughout the world as the number one killer of mankind. Because of war, would the Influenza have killed more than the 6,000,000? The disease may have had more opportunity to spread within Russia. It was mostly British and Americans that were infected but with a longer war that may have changed.

An interesting topic indeed...

The number of deaths from the influenza outbreak has always amazed me.

Deaths in India alone they say were 16,000,000 with total deaths between 45 & 70 million.

[lancesergeant]

The map of Africa would be interesting Tanganika still under German control, South West Africa - German. South Africa's position would be interesting as would British East Africa. Egypt and the Suez canal!! Oil deposits in Iraq and TransJordan in German hands. Then the Jewish question the Zionist movement wanted it's own homeland, would Germany took over Uganda and blocked that avenue. Interesting hypothesis and leaves open numerous routes to follow. Germany would have occupied Russia to an extent which it could keep it supplied without the problems Napoleon faced. It would have to be careful it didn't outstretch it's resources.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by lancesergeant

The map of Africa would be interesting Tanganika still under German control, South West Africa - German. South Africa's position would be interesting as would British East Africa. Egypt and the Suez canal!! Oil deposits in Iraq and TransJordan in German hands. Then the Jewish question the Zionist movement wanted it's own homeland, would Germany took over Uganda and blocked that avenue. Interesting hypothesis and leaves open numerous routes to follow. Germany would have occupied Russia to an extent which it could keep it supplied without the problems Napoleon faced. It would have to be careful it didn't outstretch it's resources.

German East Africa (Rwanda and Burundi together with Tanganyika) were also German Colonies.

Pacific Colonies:

German New Guinea
German Solomon Islands
Caroline Islands
Federated States of Micronesia (Chuuk, Kosrae, Pohnpei, & Yap)
Palau
Mariana Islands
Nauru
Marshall Islands
Samoa

Australia sent warships and troops to dispossess the Germans of some of these islands at the outbreak of WW1.