Who shall I fight for?

[Owen]

Been thinking about the occupied Western European countries and who their servicemen fought for after occupation in 1940.

I believe more Frenchmen fought for the Vichy Forces than the Free French.
Anyone help with exact numbers?
How many went on to serve in German Units on the Ost Front?
Remember reading in Beevor's Berlin book that alot of the SS there were in fact French.

I've also read about 60 000 (?) Dutch also served on the Eastern Front.
How does that compare to the Princess Irene's Brigade in NW Europe?


Whilst in the Low countries what about the Belgiums?
After their surrender in 1940 where did most of their men fight?

I conclude then that in occupied Europe most men fought for the Germans against the Soviets as it was easier to join in the fight against the Soviet threat than try to escape from occupied lands to join the Free-Forces of whatever nation.

Agree?

A nice little bit on the Princes Irene Brigade for you, with a few numbers. i thought there were more of them, to be honest. All the pictures i've seen of them in Congleton always suggested more.
http://www.godutch.com/windmill/newsItem.asp?id=316

[Owen]

I remember reading that when the Dutch Volunteered to fight the Soviets they thoght it would be as a Dutch unit. Many were horrified to discover they were in fact to become Dutch SS. By then it was to late to back out.
Others thought differently,

Many Netherlanders assumed that service in the Waffen-SS would result in a powerful position for the Netherlands in Hitler's New World Order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_SS_...gade_Nederland


Some info here about a Dutch SS unit on the Western Front. Who came face to face with the Princess Irene's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Volu...torm_Nederland

The morale of the Division suffered when facing the Princess Irene, as the men were hesitant to fight their own countrymen, and several members had relatives serving with the Princess Irene.

[Kyt]

Originally Posted by Owen D

Been thinking about the occupied Western European countries and who their servicemen fought for after occupation in 1940.

I believe more Frenchmen fought for the Vichy Forces than the Free French.
Anyone help with exact numbers?
How many went on to serve in German Units on the Ost Front?
Remember reading in Beevor's Berlin book that alot of the SS there were in fact French.

I've also read about 60 000 (?) Dutch also served on the Eastern Front.
How does that compare to the Princess Irene's Brigade in NW Europe?


Whilst in the Low countries what about the Belgiums?
After their surrender in 1940 where did most of their men fight?

I conclude then that in occupied Europe most men fought for the Germans against the Soviets as it was easier to join in the fight against the Soviet threat than try to escape from occupied lands to join the Free-Forces of whatever nation.

Agree?

Firstly Owen, your final point on escaping the occupied lands is an interesting one because the majority of the French forces who escaped at Dunkirk asked to be returned to France after the armistice. The British complied, and the majority of these joined the Vichy, rather than the German forces.

As to the numbers of French, Dutch etc numbers, they are all available here, with descriptions of who they joined, where they fought etc:

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=307

I've also attached an interesting article of one case study - the Breton movement:

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Just to add to Owen's excellent post I can confirm that the formation in question that had French Personnel were elements of SS Charlemagne under the Command of SS General Dr Gustav Krukenberg. They took part in street fighting in the city and were quite useful as anti-tank hunters. They were based around the Reich Chancellery area and therefore would have been under Wilhelm Mohnke's command.

Beevor's book also tells of freed prisoners of war in the Eastern Provinces fleeing with the German refugees because they didnt fancy being "liberated" by the Russians. A lot of Frenchmen worked on German Estates.