Hitlers Euthanasia Programme

[plant-pilot]

taking another tack, I have to say that i do wonder how openly these orders were distributed and if they were acted on evenly across the whole of the Nazi area of control.

By that I mean that there are examples of German mentaly handicapped patients being sent to camps for extermination, as well as people who were Romany, politically 'dangerous', homosexual and the Jews. No matter what the ideological reasons, that was the policy and it was carried out in Germany and the occupied countries.

It is also documented that patients from a Dutch mental hospital were wandering around the countryside after being released by preparatory bombing before the airborne assault at Arnhem. Over 3 full years after the country was occupied by the Germans.

Can anyone explain if this was an exception rather than the 'rule'? Was the policy that was 'universal' or was it only carried out where it was politicaly or commercialy advantagous? Or was it the case that some units or commands were more or less zealous than others?

(Note - It does seem strange asking such questions in such a detached manner when it was certainly a case of human lives, not just numbers on pieces of paper, but I'm not sure I could have asked the question any other way.)

[Exxley]

taking another tack, I have to say that i do wonder how openly these orders were distributed and if they were acted on evenly across the whole of the Nazi area of control.

As a general rule, the further you went east, the more likely the Nazi Racial and Eugenic program was carried out.

[jimbotosome]

(adamcotton @ Jan 1 2006, 12:46 PM) [post=43872]

Well said, Jimbo! For once you and I are in total agreement!!!
[/b]

It was bound to happen eventually Adam!

[angie999]

(plant-pilot @ Jan 1 2006, 07:41 PM) [post=43878]taking another tack, I have to say that i do wonder how openly these orders were distributed and if they were acted on evenly across the whole of the Nazi area of control.

By that I mean that there are examples of German mentaly handicapped patients being sent to camps for extermination, as well as people who were Romany, politically 'dangerous', homosexual and the Jews. No matter what the ideological reasons, that was the policy and it was carried out in Germany and the occupied countries. [/b]

Actually, the euthenasia programme, codenamed T4, was carried out almost exclusively in Germany against Germans and this was before the Holocaust proper commenced. It was effectively brought to an end in 1941, although small numbers continued to fall foul of it.

With the limited exception of Poland, it was not really applied to the occupied countries.

[jimbotosome]

(plant-pilot @ Jan 1 2006, 02:41 PM) [post=43878]taking another tack, I have to say that i do wonder how openly these orders were distributed and if they were acted on evenly across the whole of the Nazi area of control.

By that I mean that there are examples of German mentaly handicapped patients being sent to camps for extermination, as well as people who were Romany, politically 'dangerous', homosexual and the Jews. No matter what the ideological reasons, that was the policy and it was carried out in Germany and the occupied countries.

[/b]

Wonder what would happen if Hitler had met a mentally retarded, handicapped, homosexual Jew how was a communist party member and had a really bad cold? That probably would have caused the hairs on his mustache to fall out.

By the way, I think the "sicko" ways of dying were actually better because they were usually quick. I can't imagine a more painful death than simply starving to death which most of them did. I personally would want to get it over with.

[Kiwiwriter]

(bartsch @ Dec 31 2005, 10:25 AM) [post=43836]Most people with these mental and physical handicaps are only alive because of modern medicines, technologies, etc... so should they even be alive in the first place when nature intended them to die?
[/b]

By that logic, we should never give penicillin to anyone, because anyone who gets sick with a potential fatally illness is intended by nature to die.

I do hope someone tosses that quote in your face when you're begging medical science to save the life of someone close to you. [img]images/smilies/default/wacko.gif[/img]

[Lt. Winters]

Hey Geoff. Terrible stuff but informative I was wondering if you had the figures for how many people actually did die or a rough estimate would be fine thanks,
Jack

[spidge]

From http://www.compunews.com/gus/massacres.htm

HARTHEIM SCHLOSS
In 1942, a total of 3,166 civilian prisoners were transported to this place, situated near Linz in Austria, just over the German border,and there put to death by gassing. They were classified as 'unfit to work'. Hartheim was the only prison from which there were no survivors. Used in the SS Euthanasia Programme, around 10,000 mentally retarded and crippled children were murdered here. Five such establishments were set up in Germany, including the infamous Hadamar Psychiatric Clinic. Since the Programme began in 1939, a total of 70,273 mentally retarded people were murdered in these centers. <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">Today, the Schloss has been converted into flats housing 22 families.</span>The only reminder of the terrible events that took place here is a large plaque on the wall of the entrance hall.

[attachmentid=1474]

Map shows location of Hartheim Castle gas chamber

[attachmentid=1473]

In the upper left-hand corner, there is a rectangular extension built onto the northwest tower. This is where the victims were delivered by buses into a wooden shed; they entered the castle through the door on the northwest side where there is a small red dot on the map. The victims were then taken through the arcade on the north side of the open courtyard to the Admissions room in the northeast tower. The gas chamber is located in the brown area between the two corner towers on the east side. The original door into the gas chamber opened from the east side of the courtyard, shown in the center of the drawing.

[spidge]

(Lt. Winters @ Jan 4 2006, 07:33 PM) [post=44011]Hey Geoff. Terrible stuff but informative I was wondering if you had the figures for how many people actually did die or a rough estimate would be fine thanks,
Jack
[/b]

Hi Jack,

Missed your question - Sorry.

Used in the SS Euthanasia Programme, around 10,000 mentally retarded and crippled children were murdered here. Five such establishments were set up in Germany, including the infamous Hadamar Psychiatric Clinic. Since the Programme began in 1939, a total of 70,273 mentally retarded people were murdered in these centers. <span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">Today, the Schloss has been converted into flats housing 22 families. </span>The only reminder of the terrible events that took place here is a large plaque on the wall of the entrance hall.

[spidge]

(laufer @ Nov 8 2005, 09:24 PM) [post=41288]Outside of Germany and Austria, thousands of mental patients in the occupied territories of Poland and Russia, were also killed by the Einsatzgruppen squads (SS and special police units) that followed in the wake of the invading German army. Between September 29 and November 1, 1939, these units shot about 3,700 mental patients in asylums in the region of Bromberg, Poland. In December 1939 and January 1940, SS units gassed 1,558 patients from Polish asylums in specially adapted gas vans, in order to make room for military and SS barracks. Although regular army units did not officially participate in such "cleansing" actions as general policy, some instances of their involvement have been documented.
[/b]

Hi Laufer,

I came across this on what I believe is an excellent site across the spectrum of the atrocities that were committed. The site is quite extensive.

The site is: http://www.deathcamps.org/euthanasia/t4poland.html

Approx 13,000 plus the unknown number from Otwock.

Owinska Mental Home (near Poznan): 15 September-20 December 1939. Victims: 1,100
Swiec Mental Home: September-October 1939. Victims: 1,350
Kocborowo Mental Home: 29 November-20 December 1939. Victims: 2,342
Gniezno Mental Home: December 1939, January 1940, June 1941. Victims: 1,201
Chelm Mental Home: 12 January 1940. Victims: 440
Koscian Mental Home: January-February 1940. Victims: 3,334
Gostynin Mental Home (near Warszawa): 3 February-3 July 1940, 9 July. Victims: 107
Kochanowka Mental Home (near Lodz): 13-15 March 1940, 27-28 March 1940, June-August 1940. Victims: 629
Warta Mental Home (near Sieradz): 2-4 April 1940. Victims: 499
Choroszcz Mental Home (near Bialystok): 1941. Victims: 464
Kobierzyn Mental Home (near Krakow): 23 July 1942. Victims: 500
Otwock Mental Home (near Warszawa): August 1942. Victims: unknown
Lubliniec Mental Home: August 1942-November 1944. Victims: 221 children
Wilno Mental Home: ?. Victims: 900