Were the Muslim SS the most anti-semitic ?

[Nellis kid]

Originally Posted by Owen D

Just wondering with the friction today between the two religions whether the Muslims serving in German units were more anti-semetic than your average Nazi?

#
13th waffen ss, a regiment of bosnian muslims were ruthless soldiers and fought the u.s 5th army for six months in Italy.

I believe they killed in excess of 300,000 serbs and 60,000 jews in thier homeland alone in ww2.
I believe they were caught up in the pride of the nazi regime and that this is the main reason they were so anti-semetic.
Himmlers idea of these boys being ayrian may be a farce but you cant deny thier loyalty for this

[Bodston]

More Handschar pictures

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by 51highland

With what the SS did, its hard to imagine anything being worse, but?

Not worse, just different. I get the impression that Moslems at the time were inclined to the timeless Leventine style pograms. Atrocity as a mass production industry seems to have been peculiarly Nazi. Others have surpassed their ultimate number of victims. I can't think of anyone who managed to do it in such a methodical way. On the other hand as Dennis Prager pointed out once, at least the Germans felt the need to have such things done far enough away that they could feel they had no connection. Which is not quite accurate-the Germans used the old method at times. But it has some truth to it. It is hard to think of which style seems more horrible; first I think one, then the other. But the first style is more common.
As for Moslems being anti-semite, well there are variations of anti-semitism and in the old usage the word meant not a aesthetic distaste for Jewish culture which might perhaps be pardonable-some like it some don't: I in fact do like Jewish culture but that is my affair. Nor a snobbery or bullying tendancy toward Jews which is far less pardonable. What it actually meant was an ideological dislike toward Jews. And that wasn't quite the same as what Moslems had. They claimed to be closer to metaphysical truth but everyone makes that claim one way or another including Jews; tolerance should be what you make of that fact not denial of it. They also had the snobbery I described; but that would be inevitable. The laws for Jews and Christians in Moslem countries(or Jews in Christian countries) bear some relation to the traditional Medieval law regarding foreign residents. One of the main differences is that Venetians for instance, could know that the Venetian fleet might be arrive if they were mistreated. This system is not necessarily unjust in the letter of the law(though it often was there too). But it made for friction and as I described, the Jews didn't have as many options for self-defense. When you think of it, it is suprising they did not think of building their own state sooner. However there was only two instances that come close to that, the Khazar Empire(which unfortunately has been used by anti-semites to claim that Jews really aren't Jews; which is an annoying association with a great civilization that deserves to be remembered better), and an pre-Zionist attempted settlement sponsored by an Ottoman bureaucrat.
The modern style Moslem Anti-semitism dates only from when Moslems started thinking of Jews as credible rivals. While there are hints of it in the Koran from what I have heard(I never read the Koran-most of what I know of Islam is from history), it is really a recent phenomenon. While intermittant atrocities against Jews did take place in Moslem countries(it is said to have been more common in Christiandom then Islamistan) but I wouldn't know), but actual Anti-semitism in the usage I gave is fairly recent. It was known at the time, but the Middle East controversy was pretty much a Middle Eastern issue and it is hard to believe that many Bosnians cared much. They were probably more anti-serb, or anti-croat or whatever then anti-semite. However they wouldn't have loved Jews and could easily have been made anti-semites in the nazi manner.
Which doesn't give a conclusion but does give information.

[jason taylor]

This system is not necessarily unjust in the letter of the law(though it often was there too).

Because Medieval Law thought of people as members of interest groups and gave each interest group it's rights and responsibilities. Some were treated better some worse. Jews were in a peculiar situation; they often had quite a bit of influence(though not so much as conspiracy theorists say-and there were quite a few poor Jews) from the power of the purse and the pen, but their security hung by a thread on the whim of the powerful or the mobs present state of drunkenness.
This has little to do with World War II, except that every historical event is formed by the previous. But I felt the need to clarify.

[Christos]

If you have a quick look at my thread posted on the Axis Unit History portion of our site, you will see that few Moslem formations gave anything but EXCREBLE service to their Nazi masters, preferring to use the oppurtunity to settle old religious scores.....disgrace to the German Army AND the Waffen-SS......you really can't have much that's good to say about these people, one only hopes that the majority of them were captured by either the Russians or the Jugoslavs/Poles, or anyone that could hand these people out the punishment they so richly deserved. All involved in these formations should hang their heads....shame, shame, shame.

[BulgarianSoldier]

Im sure that there isn't anybody who knows better what muslims are capable of, in times of war.As you may know there was a big ethnical war on the Balkans 1992-1995, the war begin because of the anti-semetism of the muslim.And when muslims actually fight against christians the war is more personal then just orders.

Dani

[A Potts]

I would speculate that most of the current hatred of Jews stems from the Arab - Israel conflict and this conflict did not really get going until post WW2 (in particular 1948 - formation of Israel).

Possibly given the Muslim - Christian history pre 1948, they would have had just as much if not more reasons to have an instinctive hatred of christians.

This is not say they would have had any great love for Jews either. I think it would be more likely that committed Nazis had a greater hatred of Jews.

Not sure really, but that would be my first thought anyway.

[BulgarianSoldier]

Originally Posted by A Potts

I would speculate that most of the current hatred of Jews stems from the Arab - Israel conflict and this conflict did not really get going until post WW2 (in particular 1948 - formation of Israel).

Possibly given the Muslim - Christian history pre 1948, they would have had just as much if not more reasons to have an intinctive hatred of christians.

This is not say they would have had any great love for Jews either. I think it would be more likely that committed Nazis had a greater hatred of Jews.

Not sure really, but that would be my first thought anyway.

1948 ? Thats not true. Let me give you a statistic where you can see muslim hate christians before 1948.
From 1400 to 1880 (and a little until that) the Ottoman Empire (fantaical muslims) ruled the whole Balkans(christian countrys) they did unspeakable killing,murdering,raping and didn't treat us as bulgarian or serbians they treat us like christians a lower form of life, and it was free to kill us as they like.During the killings, the muslims used only cold weapon.
By the way if you know armenians ask them, from all people of the world armenians are the people that were killed the most by the ottomans.
1912-1913 it was time for all Balkanian countrys to strike back at the ottomans and we did.It was payback.

The ottomans call all Europans "rumilet" this means "Roman people" (Christian people), for them christians are lower then isliam and god won't punish them if they kill us, actualy for them it is a good thing.
Muslims hated christians from Medieval times.

[Owen]

Then again in the interests of balance, Richard The Lionheart had a few Muslims killed in 1191 after the fall of Acre.
About 2500 to 3000 wasn't it?

[Gotthard Heinrici]

This conflict is not a recent one and can be traced back, as Owen points out to the Crusades. As long as they have existed the Crescent and the Cross have been unable to exist peacefully.