World War 2 TalkCalendarContact Us

Go Back   World War 2 Talk > Main WW2 Talk Forum > The Holocaust

The Holocaust Area for discussion of one of the most horrific aspects of the war. No denialism, spam, or disrespect welcome.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20-10-2007, 09:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
sapper
WW2 Veteran
 
sapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,479
sapper has a spectacular aura aboutsapper has a spectacular aura aboutsapper has a spectacular aura about
Hi Ron.
Well mate your people suffered the most. Can anyone really believe that Hitlers SS, Still killing their victims as fast as they could, even up to the last days of the war....

That Hitler would listen to anyone? Not a bit of it. He would not listen to his own generals let alone someone without any power at all.
All that could be done was done. sadly it was not enough. When we did get there, we moved Heaven and Earth to try to save as many as we could, But it is true that the years of privation, starvation, and cruelty, ensured that a great many would die even after liberation.

Yet we have still not learned the lesson. I supported the war in Iraq. I foolishly thought that in this day and age, there was no place for murderous tyrants, and to save lives, and for the sake of the ordinary man we should remove them.
How wrong can you be...We removed the murdering tyrant and incurred the wrath of the people for doing it.

There is a lesson there. It would seem that in future the oppressed must seek their own salvation.
Sapper
sapper is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2007, 06:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
Slipdigit
The Dixie Division
 
Slipdigit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Not far enough in the woods
Posts: 1,630
Slipdigit has a spectacular aura aboutSlipdigit has a spectacular aura aboutSlipdigit has a spectacular aura about
Bombing the rail service to interdict traffic between materials and factories also affected traffic to the camps. I see no way to have stopped what was going on without having Allied troops in the camps and how could we have done that without first defeating the enemy troops defending the periphery?

This topic of bombing the extermination camps was discussed ad nauseum here. I am fully convinced that nothing short of ending the war was going to prevent the deaths.

In all sincerity, what else could have been done other than what was done, the total defeat of the NSDAP government and the occupation of Germany?
__________________
Warmest Regards,
Jeff



The Bonnie Blue Flag

Slipdigit is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2007, 11:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
Marina
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 207
Marina is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfz View Post
Also why was not policitcal force not used, The Nazis had some small degree of policitical consience attempting to hide the evidence, they may well have been less likely to continue if policitcal threats where made before the end of the war.
Kev

Churchill did warn the Nazis that there would be reprisals after the war.
As for bombing - is it true that Allied planes couldn't actually fly that distance until they had airstrips in Europe? But even if I am mistaken about that, surely the most certain way to end the exterminations was to win the war.
Marina is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2007, 03:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
40th Alabama
Member
 
40th Alabama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Loganville, GA
Posts: 96
40th Alabama is on a distinguished road
Watching the Ken Burn's series on the War i recognized a picture that my dad took at a camp his company was involved in liberating-i had wondered where it was. The Camp was Wobbelin (Ludwigslutz, Germany).

The pictures are here: Hitler's Final Solution

The reason I bring this up, if you notice in the picture that the town's people were made to bury prisoners on either side of the entrance road all the way up to the castle. I am sure this was done so that the town would always remember what they did there. Well, wrong-the area has been redevolped into a nice park area and aparently all of the graves have been moved.

Today pictures are here:
Stadt Ludwigslust

Kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it!
40th Alabama is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2007, 12:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
spidge
Legendary Member
 
spidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,047
spidge will become famous soon enoughspidge will become famous soon enough
Bombing of the camps would have caused more deaths. Even if the bombing had been precise and the inmates escaped, (if they were physically able) they would have been shot or just returned to their own camp or another nearby.

The only way to relieve their suffering was to defeat their tormentors and that was achieved in 1945.
__________________
Spidge,

-------------------------------------------------------
My Avatar is the memorial to the 22 Commonwealth Coastwatchers at the Temakin Cemetery on Betio (Tarawa Atoll) who were beheaded by the Japanese on 15th October 1942. http://www.dva.gov.au/media/publicat...mem_beito.html

"You were given the choice between war and dishonor.
You chose dishonor and you will have war."

(Winston Churchill made this prophetic pronouncement in a House of Commons speech in 1938, just after Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich agreement with Hitler. Chamberlain returned from Germany with the signed agreement in hand, proclaiming that "peace in our time" had been achieved. Churchill attacked Chamberlain's "politics of appeasement" in this and many other speeches.)

What did the Australians do in ww2 and other conflicts? Check out this site:
http://www.diggerhistory.info/00-pag...ster-index.htm
spidge is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2007, 01:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
sapper
WW2 Veteran
 
sapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,479
sapper has a spectacular aura aboutsapper has a spectacular aura aboutsapper has a spectacular aura about
I just sometimes wonder if some of the troops, so outraged by what they found meted out instant justice? I have no knowledge of what took place. I was back in the UK in hospital...But i know that I would have found it difficult to accept what they come across, without taking some severe action.

In those days our little piratical group were a damn sight more assertive than this old vet is today.
Sapper
sapper is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2007, 09:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
kfz
Very Senior Member
 
kfz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 1,113
kfz will become famous soon enoughkfz will become famous soon enough
I dont think anyone is suggesting bomb the fences to let the victims out. Rather target the essential imovable bits of infrarstructure these large camps had. Rail lines, Cremetoria.

I realise that nothing was going to stop it completly, but slowing it down, disabling the huge extirmination camps for soem degree of time.

The basic fact is that it was a strict military target.

Kev
kfz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2007, 04:41 AM   #18 (permalink)
Herroberst
Very Senior Member
 
Herroberst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the tree line
Posts: 1,212
Herroberst is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfz View Post
I dont think anyone is suggesting bomb the fences to let the victims out. Rather target the essential imovable bits of infrarstructure these large camps had. Rail lines, Cremetoria.

I realise that nothing was going to stop it completly, but slowing it down, disabling the huge extirmination camps for soem degree of time.

The basic fact is that it was a strict military target.

Kev
I have to agree with Sapper:

I think the idea was that any bombing of the Camps would basically do the Germans Dirty job for them, unless you were suggesting some type of tactical Air sortie, which couldn't realistically be done until 44, and then would have been a token gesture better to have gone with transport interdiction, destruction of rail stock.
__________________
Coir a glaive

Nemo me impune lacessit

Herroberst is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2007, 01:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
Stephen
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 27
Stephen is an unknown quantity at this point
If the allies had issued a warning to Germany over its genocidal actions or bombed the camps it would be the same as telling them that their secret communications were being read. As the Germans were industriously murdering right up to the end when it must have been clear the war was lost it is unlikely that the killing would have stopped because the allies knew. Once the Allies decided that issuing a warning or bombing camps while it may have done some good meant giving away the greatest intelligence secret of the war and they are not going to do it what could they have done?. However I have a feeling that doing something was not a priority for the allies.
Stephen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2007, 02:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
sapper
WW2 Veteran
 
sapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,479
sapper has a spectacular aura aboutsapper has a spectacular aura aboutsapper has a spectacular aura about
The idea that we could have bombed the fences to let the people escape? Not on! they could hardly walk, let alone escape.
What we should have done is extract such a horrific penalty for anyone involved, that no one ever again would contemplate doing the same atrocity.
Sapper
sapper is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Germans: Axis or Allies? marcus69x General 8 07-01-2007 10:26 PM
'Spy' Prunes Helped Allies in WWII Story World War II News Articles 6 12-04-2006 08:27 PM
What If Britian and Germany became Allies morse1001 Battle Specifics 6 26-03-2006 06:04 AM
Axis & Allies - D Day Edition salientpoints Books and Movies 1 03-05-2004 08:05 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:22 AM.
vBSkinworks


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0