Auschwitz, the Nazis and the "Final Solution"

[angie999]

This is the discussion thread for the first episode of the new BBC series, screened 11 January 2004, and the introduction and first chapter of the companion book of the same name by Laurence Rees (BBC Books, 2005).

We can discuss the TV series in two ways:

1. As history. This is particularly where the book comes in as well, because it expands the history as shown on TV and explains mor eof the background to what happened at Auschwitz. But in the title and content of this first episode, we are given a view of Auschwitz not as a place where a million Jews were murdered, but of a camp originally intended to house 10,000 Polish political prisoners. Is this really surprising beginnings?

2. As TV. It would be very difficult to make a series like this one over six episodes without the use of dramatisation, given the absence of archive footage of Auschwitz. But what do you think about the use of this technique, which is increasingly common in TV history? And how well do you think it was used here? Also, some use was made of survivor/participant accounts in the first episode, but no direct interviews with the "experts". Did the production team get it right.

Above all, the series is aimed, in my opinion, not at the probably quite small number of people who already have a good idea of what happened at Auschwitz, but at a much wider group of viewers and readers who know about the murder of the Jews, who probably have no clear idea of how Auschwitz actually fitted into the overall picture and who are interested to know. If this is you and you are drawn here because of unanswered questions, please ask them. This is not to say that any of us involved in the discussion are experts ourselves, with all the information readily to hand, but between us we can discuss and try to find the answers.

I will post my own personal contributions separatley below.

[Marina]

I thought the dramatisation was quite chilling, particularly the one where they were discussing the starvation of the Russian people and the one where the doctors were markig the red X on the forms of those who were to die - without even seeing the patient.
Marina

[angie999]

Originally posted by Marina@Jan 12 2005, 04:53 PM
the doctors were markig the red X on the forms of those who were to die - without even seeing the patient.
Marina

[snapback]124[/snapback]

Yes, I got the book a couple of weeks ago and finished reading it last week. This episode did not have the same impact in writing that it did on TV. I think that overall, the dramatisations were very effective and not overdone. And they helped to illustrate the points, like you describe, very effectively.

My husband remarked that to save money they should use a clip from "Conspiracy" when they get to the Wannsee conference, but I think these images are too well known and would detract from the narative. By using (so far) relatively unknown actors and having them speak in German, it is coming across to me as dramatised history and not drama, which is the important point.

One thing which was covered, but could be forgotten, is the apparent concern expressed about the effect of the mass shootings onthe members of the Einsatzgruppen, leading to the search for altermative methods. Rees makes quite a lot of this. Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland (1992) told the story of one group of police reservists who carried out a series of mass shootings without, apparently, the effects described in the programme and I would welcome further comment on this fromanyone who has studied it. Certainly mass shootings in the USSR continued long after the gas chambers in the Aktion Reinhardt camps had come into use.

[Marina]

One thing which was covered, but could be forgotten, is the apparent concern expressed about the effect of the mass shootings onthe members of the Einsatzgruppen, leading to the search for altermative methods. Rees makes quite a lot of this. Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland (1992) told the story of one group of police reservists who carried out a series of mass shootings without, apparently, the effects described in the programme and I would welcome further comment on this fromanyone who has studied it.

I read that book too - the chilling thing was that so many men quite happily followed orders without questioning them - an abject lesson in peer pressure - the ten (was it ten?) who refused were thought of as wimps and cowards and uncommitted by their peers.
I'm not sure it was as easy as all that for some of these men though - didn't they have to be fed vodka and so on to fire them up? And I know there were concerns in Berlin about the effect of this kind of work.
I suppose it was like everything else - different effects on different people.

Sorry for the delay in replying, still trying to find that "work life balance"

Generally I thought it was a good introduction and without appearing to end already I felt the point in which it finished was a bit of a cliff hanger, of course we know where they are going with part two but many wont, and that ending will certainly keep them tuned in.

Overall I was neither here nor there with the dramatization, the acting was good and there was nobody as such "famous", I tend to think when you get someone well known then it appears too much of a "drama" for such a serious issue.

I often find in my talks and discussions that block 11 never gets the kind of attention it merits, so that was good to see a bit of time being spent on it, after all they did carry out the testing of ZB crystals which would as we know spark off something much bigger.

I know a few that really hit back at the comments made in the scene where concern was made over the ability of the Einsatzgruppen to continue mass shootings, stating they felt it was portrayed in such a way that we should feel sorry for them.

Well in a way I dont disagree, it was a war yes, but that does not totally remove a humans compassion and feelings about shooting people in the back of the head on a regular basis! There is much more I could say about this subject and best left to another topic.

I will no doubt have more to say

[Marina]

You're right about the hideousness of those mass murderers - I cannot see how anyone could feel remotely sorry for them - except the High Command. What beats me is how stressed they were and yet did not have the courage or conviction to refuse. You'd think that even if they felt no pity for the victims they'd have realised that the Aktions were no good for them either. I remember reading about a camp officer - I;m sorry, I can't remember exactly who this was - who tried to show that he was sensitive by relating that he always kept his office chair facing away from the window overlooking the camp because he could not bear the sights there. perhaps hell will have a chaoir foxed to the floor where is forced to look at his handiwork.

[laufer]

The series has just strted yesterday in Polish tv channel TVP1. Unfortunately I've missed first episode. But sooner or later I'll buy a book.

Originally posted by Marina@Jan 21 2005, 05:58 PM
You're right about the hideousness of those mass murderers - I cannot see how anyone could feel remotely sorry for them - except the High Command. What beats me is how stressed they were and yet did not have the courage or conviction to refuse.

I am in by no way justifying anyones actions, really trying to understand them, the propaganda machine spewing out hatred for the Jews and the simple fact that having the "courage" to refuse would end up in their own death is probably enough reasons not to refuse in their own eyes.

We can all say we would not do it but that was a different time, place and a lot other things.

[Marina]

But some did refuse - and nothing much seems to have happened to them - barrck cleaning duties - not too difficult. Others paid lip service - and turned a blind eye. I supposed it was a case of each man according to his own nature. But you're right - no one can know how they would react.
marina

[angie999]

From what we know about those who refused, it appears that you could do so on the grounds that you had no stomach for it and be assigned to other duties, but I know of no case where anyone refused on principle, which I think would have resuled in severe repercussions.