Six Million a true figure?

[PeterG]

It is not a question of argument, the rounded-down figure of six million is not disputed by academic historians. The point is that the figures of two-and-a-half million and six million do not clash, one is included in the other.

However, these numbers are about to be settled precisely once-and-for-all. In May 2006 international agreement was finally reached on opening the Nazi Archives. Go here BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Nazi crimes archives set to open for details and for a video tour of the archive.

[Ron Goldstein]

Like others on this thread, I too do not wish to be drawn into ”the numbers game”

But…………

Unlike others who may have contributed to this thread , I have personally witnessed and trawled through countless official German documents that carefully listed the tens of thousands of completely innocent Jewish civilians who had passed through the Nazi death camp systems, and this, bear in mind, was at just one particular camp.

At the time in question I was researching, on behalf of a friend, the final hours of his mother’s life. The abiding memory of my time at this particular research centre is that of examining carefully bound ledger after ledger , each with the same the relentless line after line of names, all in strict alphabetical order. The last column on each page gave the date on which the individual named had been slaughtered.

It was the German hierarchy itself, revelling in its ability to slaughter the innocents that has provided the basis for the figures that are now on record.

[Owen]

Thanks for answering my questions on a sensitive subject and for you ,Ron, a very personnal one.

[Za Rodinu]

Originally Posted by Owen D

Kyt
I was loathe to use that site [Stormfront] but it raised a question I wanted answering.
Thanks.

Holy Sheet, Owen, none of my business but what were you doing in a place like that!?

If it's not exactly 6 million it should be more or less around that, if the round number is not exact it does not detract from the horror.

[BulgarianSoldier]

Excuse me gentalmets.But i'v got one simple thing to say.The true amount of the jews cant be said.Because many of the bodys just...disapear, some of them were put in the holes somewhere around the camps.
Maybe 7 milions maybe less..
Im far from deniers mates ,i'v got jew friends and half of there family was exactly kill in those camps and this is enough prof for me to balive there was camps.But i even speaked with them that some of the things arn't true.I have read a bit about Autchwitz, when the damn red soviet army come they have build crematorium ,and they said that bodys were burned there.And because in school i was really good at bio i fastly realise, that this is imposible, because the human body is 60-70 % water (it sounds funny ) and this mean that one body cant burn outher body as the russians said.Of course germans won't use fuel because they need it.And burning 600-700 jews a day is FULLY imposible even with fuel.
While i was reading a i read what a jew who clame he was there say about all the thing.The man said that the jews were burned to ash even no bones.Wow even today the crematoriums use mashines to crush the bones because when you burn someone his bones will stay (You could easy check what happan after airplane crashes).
And one more thing mates, where the drinking water for Autshwitz come ?
Around Autshwitz and under Autshwitz.So how can the gemrans put the jews in the holes under Autshwitz will you drink water that pass around 1 milion dead bodys ? So the germans dig holes somewhere outside of Autshwitz but not inside.

Now you see why i never read books about holocoust because i aweys try to look from the eyes of the enemy the german eyes and to think like them.Will i cut a jew head? Will i burn him and laugh? Will i make soup of them?

[PeterG]

Originally Posted by BulgarianSoldier

I have read a bit about Autchwitz, when the damn red soviet army come they have build crematorium ,and they said that bodys were burned there.And because in school i was really good at bio i fastly realise, that this is imposible, because the human body is 60-70 % water ... and this mean that one body cant burn outher body as the russians said. Of course germans won't use fuel because they need it.And burning 600-700 jews a day is FULLY imposible even with fuel.
While i was reading a i read what a jew who clame he was there say about all the thing.The man said that the jews were burned to ash even no bones. Wow even today the crematoriums use mashines to crush the bones because when you burn someone his bones will stay (You could easy check what happan after airplane crashes).

Let me start by congratulating you on your English, I know how hard it can be to express oneself clearly in a foreign language. However, there are so many mistakes here and misunderstandings that it is difficult knowing where to begin.

First, you are confusing chemistry, physics, and biology. You are quite right in saying that the human body is 60-70% water. However, most of this is in the body's muscle cells rather than in fat cells and in no way prevents combustion. The body also contains a very large amount of oxygen, and substantial quantities of hydrogen and nitrogen and, in sum, it is highly combustible. You might as well say that whiskey will not burn because it contains 30% water or that ethanol vapour will not ignite because it consists of 4% water. I would advise you not to test this with any large amounts of either.

Then we have this:

The man said that the jews were burned to ash even no bones.Wow even today the crematoriums use mashines to crush the bones because when you burn someone his bones will stay (You could easy check what happan after airplane crashes).

Here you are confusing the disposal of bodies in death camps with modern cremation funeral practises. All that remains after burning a corpse at over 1,000° is mostly ash except for certain bone fragments. In a modern cremation it is the entire remaining ash and bone fragment volume which is gathered and run through a processor, creating a uniform powder-like texture, which is placed in an urn for the deceased next-of-kin.

As for this

Of course germans won't use fuel because they need it.

You are wrongly assuming that the Nazis used petrol (gasoline) or vehicle oil. You might just as well say that flame-throwers wasted valuable fuel. They used compressed nitrogen and compounds similar to napalm, and could easily be adapted to ignite cremations. Compressed spayed paraffin, as used in common blow-torches, is also more than adequate.

[Kyt]

Might I suggest that people have a look at the following site that covers the Irving/Lipstadt trial:

Holocaust Denial On Trial

Have a look at the Evidence section in particular. As a "test" case on the holocaust and denial, it is an excellent resource.

[PeterG]

Originally Posted by Kyt

Might I suggest that people have a look at the following site that covers the Irving/Lipstadt trial:

Holocaust Denial On Trial

Better still get the book. Telling Lies About Hitler - The Holocaust, History and the David Irving Trial by Richard J. Evans (Verso, 2002, paperback - ISBN 1-85984-417-0).

Apart from the main theme, this book is about how we can tell the difference between truth and lies in history.

An astonishing brief of the historical profession against a fallen practitioner. Evans exhibits a vivid intelligence, clear writing and a bright animated rage (Mark Greif - Times Literary Supplement)

The evidence marshalled by Evans against Irving is devastating (Ian Buruma - The New Yorker)

The tingle of intellectual discovery runs through Evans' methodical demolition of Irving's work ... A classic example of historical research as detective story (Charles Taylor - salon.com)

Evan's is a flat, dull, boring, venal, corrupt conformist who willingly sold his soul to the Devil (David Irving)

[Kyt]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Better still get the book. Telling Lies About Hitler - The Holocaust, History and the David Irving Trial by Richard J. Evans (Verso, 2002, paperback - ISBN 1-85984-417-0).

Apart from the main theme, this book is about how we can tell the difference between truth and lies in history.

An astonishing brief of the historical profession against a fallen practitioner. Evans exhibits a vivid intelligence, clear writing and a bright animated rage (Mark Greif - Times Literary Supplement)

The evidence marshalled by Evans against Irving is devastating (Ian Buruma - The New Yorker)

The tingle of intellectual discovery runs through Evans' methodical demolition of Irving's work ... A classic example of historical research as detective story (Charles Taylor - salon.com)

Evan's is a flat, dull, boring, venal, corrupt conformist who willingly sold his soul to the Devil (David Irving)

Yes indeed, an excellent book. And Irving's statement is reason enough to read it.

[BulgarianSoldier]

Ok PeterG thanks.I didn't know most of those facts.
But for one thing i cant balive.They cant burn the bodys so much because however there will be bones not only ashes.Of course germans can use oil or gasoline but to burn jews isn't beter to shot them?
Of course i dont say nothing about the gas chambers i know they are made to kill so im not denie them.

And because i forget to say something importand.There was a water water around Autshwitz.And what live near the swamps? A lot of musquitos and they can carry a lot of illness.And a lot of jews have died because of illness, the germans didn't care to give them medical support.