Auschwitz, Is this true???

[KriegsmarineFreak]

I've read a story about the Germans massacring the wrong French town somewhere although I am quite surprised the Das Reich Panzer Div would commit such an act. I only thought that the German SS or the army committed the acts. I never imagine the Panzer groups were also involved in artrocities. Horrible, horrible, they'd do such a thing to innocent people. Although I've never been there before I've found this very resourceful website on the town. It has pictures of all the sites and its hardly been changed from that fateful time.

Here's the link: Oradour-sur-Glane 10 June 1944

[Za Rodinu]

What made you think that driving a tank implied sainthood?

[von Poop]

KMF, just for information's sake, that would be the 2nd SS Panzer division 'Das Reich'.

[sapper]

No2 Das Reich were SS and that was not the only atrocity they committed
Dapper

[KriegsmarineFreak]

I see. That's really interesting. What other atrocities did the 2nd SS Panzer division commit?

[Gibbo]

In June 1944, the 2nd SS Panzer Division was stationed at Montauban in South West France, 450 miles from Normandy. During its move north to combat the invasion it was harassed by the Resistance & Allied Special Forces. In retaliation, it carried out a series of atrocities against the civilian population, culminating in Oradour-Sur-Glane. At Tulle on June 9, it rounded up 3,000 Frenchmen; 120 Maquis were to be hanged in retaliation for the killing of 40 Germans whose bodies they claimed had been mutilated. As, according to Das Reich by Max Hastings, no more than 2 of the 3,000 were Maquisards, the Germans had to resort to measures such as assuming that the young, dirty or unshaven were Maquisards. Eventually, all but 410 were released. 120 were selected to die but for some reason, possibly representations by the local priest, the Germans stopped after hanging 99 of the innocent Frenchman. The other 311 were imprisoned; 162 were released & 149 sent to Dachau, of whom only 49 returned. Hastings says that there appeared to be no logic as to who was chosen to be released.

Sturmbannfuhrer Dickmann, the SS commander at Oradour, had previously had 13 people killed at Fraysinnant; one was an old woman who'd fired a shotgun at the Germans, 2 were her nieces whose only offence was to share her house & the other 10 were entirely innocent hostages. Hastings also relates other, smaller executions of innocent people.

Hastings' book deals with only June 1944 in detail but makes it clear that this sort of behaviour was normal on the Eastern Front, where Das Reich had previously served. During his research he met a former officer of another SS division, not Das Reich. This individual told Hastings that long after the war he had met another former SS man who had been at Oradour. The ex Das Reich man had said of Oradour that 'in our circles...it was nothing'. In context, this clearly means relative to what the SS had done in the East.

[sapper]

The 99 men were hung from the towns lamposts, aided and abetted by the Vichy French. Today the French hang flower baskets on the lamp posts in remembrance of those that were slaughtered.

What is sickening, is that there have been German Visitors there, that thought the flower baskets were lovely...
Sapper

[Gibbo]

Heinz Barth, a former SS officer convicted in 1983 of crimes at Oradour & in Czechoslovakia, died earlier this month.

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Nazi war criminal dies in Germany

Heinz Barth's Service records

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

Heinz Barth, a former SS officer convicted in 1983 of crimes at Oradour & in Czechoslovakia, died earlier this month.

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Nazi war criminal dies in Germany

Heinz Barth's Service records

His death should have come sooner at the end of a rope.

[EmersonBigguns]

For what its worth....

I found this thread about a month ago looking for info on Auschwitz. I visited both Auschwitz sites last week, kept this thread in mind while I was there, and I just wanted to add my personal observations.

There are definately birds at Auschwitz. Auschwitz 1 had so many species of different birds occupying the trees and rooftops that I didn't even bother to count.

At Auschwitz 2 - Birkenau I also observed several species of songbirds, more than a few crows, and even a duck sitting in a drainaing ditch near the rail bed.

The answer to the original post is definately a big no.

The real question should be why do people not see birds when they visit Auschwitz?

Three reasons. One, they don't know where to look and two, specifically in the case of Birkenau, is lack of suitable habitat. Auschwitz 2 is located in a large open area with no significant foliage or other areas for birds to forage for food and there is also no access to water without a substantial rainfail. The only significant patches of trees at Auschwitz lie on the fringes of the camp and this is where I observed most of the activity. Most of the buildings are gone and those that do survive or lie in ruin are not ideal for nesting due to the reasons stated above. Also, I definately heard more birds than I saw.

The third reason is obvious. Birds are generally not what one is going to be thinking about when visiting to that awful place. Rightly so.

Again just an observation on the original question. I'll post some photos of my trip in a different thread later.