Ortona Sherman - Page 2

Rich Payne · 27-05-2008, 10:51 PM

This sale and gifting of this Sherman caused quite a bit of controversy in The Netherlands. It is 'Cookie' from Overloon and as Hanno Spoelstra states in this thread from MLU, it is one of the few battle identifiable Shermans in existence and a type that was not used by the Canadians !

Ortona remembered - MLU FORUM

The politics of museums. Sometimes (often ? ) they really are the worst custodians.

Rich

p.s. Just realised that Adam beat me to it. Damn you ! R.

Paul Reed · 27-05-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpl Rootes

Where are the bird's eye and mechanics eye views guys? Fancy missing those

Owen offered to through my camera in the air for me, but I declined.

The hatches were all welded down, sadly...

Tom Canning · 28-05-2008, 12:53 AM

Someone must be trying to confuse me as according to my memory the numbering of this particular Sherman (174)was that of the Trois Rivierres regiment of the 1st Canadian Armoured bde which landed with the 1st cdn Div on the beaches of Sicily and supported them to Ortona when the recently landed 5th Cdn Armoured div took over for a short spell until Monty fired them - the 25th and 21st British Army Tank bdes then took over for the Hitler/Gustav and Gothic Lines until all the Cdns went on to Belgium in the Jan./feb of '45.
I distinctly recall that number as when the Cdn 1st Bde were at the Florence end of the Gothic line we were involved in a decoy move towards Florence before doing a 180 back to Fabriano then on to Jesi to start the advance over the Metauro with the Seaforths of Canada - the night before that - would be 24th Aug '44 - we had to change all our numbers to that of the Cdn 1st Armoured regiments and we in the 145th RAC were given the 174 with their colours (Peterg's web has the numbering system) - we could only shake our heads at the time but it seemed to work as it took Kesselring three days to figure out that two Canadian Divisions were tearing his 71st Division apart - then he woke up and sent in his 1st paras and 26th Panzers with 29th PG's - it was fun !

Owen · 28-05-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Someone must be trying to confuse me...

Tom you are quite correct 12th Cdn Armd Regt was the Three Rivers Regt.
>>> Three Rivers regiment

Just a shame this particular Sherman wasn't one of theirs.

Tom Canning · 28-05-2008, 08:11 AM

Yes Owen - I know as I have slight correction to PeterG's web - not being the senior regiment in the 21st Tank Bde - 12RTR was - they had the number of the Ontario Tanks 11th regt 173- and the 48th RTR had the Calgary Tanks - 14th Regt.- number 175 - owing to the fact that we were the junior regt - and an Infantry Territorial unit of the 8th Duke of Wellington's - we were disbanded at Cesena in the dec/ Jan '44/45 and were replaced by the North Irish Horse - 142nd RAC also had the chop which left 51st RTR in 25th Tank bde which then became an Armoured Engineer bde with crocodiles and all sorts of funnies.....

Owen · 28-05-2008, 08:17 AM

Ah, got you Tom.
It is slightly confusing trying to understand that.
Had to read it a couple of times, but understand now.
Cheers for the info.

27-05-2008, 10:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
Rich Payne Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 650	This sale and gifting of this Sherman caused quite a bit of controversy in The Netherlands. It is 'Cookie' from Overloon and as Hanno Spoelstra states in this thread from MLU, it is one of the few battle identifiable Shermans in existence and a type that was not used by the Canadians ! Ortona remembered - MLU FORUM The politics of museums. Sometimes (often ? ) they really are the worst custodians. Rich p.s. Just realised that Adam beat me to it. Damn you ! R. __________________ 1939 ex-BEF Norton WD16H restoration detailed on http://www.wdnorton.nl/ Last edited by Rich Payne; 27-05-2008 at 10:56 PM. Reason: Bad loser

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28-05-2008, 12:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tom Canning WW2 Veteran Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 458	Someone must be trying to confuse me as according to my memory the numbering of this particular Sherman (174)was that of the Trois Rivierres regiment of the 1st Canadian Armoured bde which landed with the 1st cdn Div on the beaches of Sicily and supported them to Ortona when the recently landed 5th Cdn Armoured div took over for a short spell until Monty fired them - the 25th and 21st British Army Tank bdes then took over for the Hitler/Gustav and Gothic Lines until all the Cdns went on to Belgium in the Jan./feb of '45. I distinctly recall that number as when the Cdn 1st Bde were at the Florence end of the Gothic line we were involved in a decoy move towards Florence before doing a 180 back to Fabriano then on to Jesi to start the advance over the Metauro with the Seaforths of Canada - the night before that - would be 24th Aug '44 - we had to change all our numbers to that of the Cdn 1st Armoured regiments and we in the 145th RAC were given the 174 with their colours (Peterg's web has the numbering system) - we could only shake our heads at the time but it seemed to work as it took Kesselring three days to figure out that two Canadian Divisions were tearing his 71st Division apart - then he woke up and sent in his 1st paras and 26th Panzers with 29th PG's - it was fun !

28-05-2008, 08:11 AM	#15 (permalink)
Tom Canning WW2 Veteran Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 458	Yes Owen - I know as I have slight correction to PeterG's web - not being the senior regiment in the 21st Tank Bde - 12RTR was - they had the number of the Ontario Tanks 11th regt 173- and the 48th RTR had the Calgary Tanks - 14th Regt.- number 175 - owing to the fact that we were the junior regt - and an Infantry Territorial unit of the 8th Duke of Wellington's - we were disbanded at Cesena in the dec/ Jan '44/45 and were replaced by the North Irish Horse - 142nd RAC also had the chop which left 51st RTR in 25th Tank bde which then became an Armoured Engineer bde with crocodiles and all sorts of funnies.....

28-05-2008, 08:17 AM	#16 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 9,097	Ah, got you Tom. It is slightly confusing trying to understand that. Had to read it a couple of times, but understand now. Cheers for the info.

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