C SQN 7th R.T.R. Middle East Force

[Kieron Hill]

Hi all

I posted on a previous thread a request
for any info on the 7th RTR. If any of you
have visisted my website you'll see quite
a large collection of photos from North
Africa, of which I have collected over the
past couple of years. I have just managed
to secure another 300 original photos and
boy there are some great pictures.

I do not do this for profit and I will never sell
on any of my collection I just do it for the pure
satisfaction of knowing they're in goods hands
and are not going to be split up and sold. It fills me
me with sadness when you look at these various
auction sites to see collections split up
never to be seen again. If you've ever sat
down with a veteran and looked at their photo's
you can't help but sense how proud they were
to serve their King and Country and it humbles
me to be in the same room.

Now back to the subject, I hope you enjoy the
next (when I've got a spare hour or two the
new arrivals will appear on my site) few pictures.

The following picture was taken just after the
Battle of Medenine

[Kieron Hill]

This is the name they've painted on the
Grant

[Kieron Hill]

I am sure some may well be able
to tell me when the Sherman
arrived in North Africa

[Kieron Hill]

MID certificate, have been looking
at the London Gazette records but
can not seem to find this entry, any
ideas?

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Kieron Hill

I am sure some may well be able
to tell me when the Sherman
arrived in North Africa

October 1942!

[Bodston]

Thanks for sharing Kieron.


The Sherman pictured is an early one, but not one of the very first to arrive in North Africa. This one is a welded hull version probably a diesel engined M4A2 (Sherman III in British parlance), it could however be an M4. Impossible to tell for certain from that angle but not many M4's were delivered to the British. The fact that it is a British vehicle and not an American tank being used for training, can be seen from the unique stowage. The fittings for the sandshields are present as is the framework box for storage of the POW cans on the front fender. It is also possible that the edge of a rear turret storage box can be seen. I'm not sure.
American tanks in the theatre generally remained in their olive drab and were not repainted sand, another British indicator.
It is not one of the very early tanks delivered because it is fitted with the heavy duty bogies, the ones with the trailing return roller rather than the M3 type bogies with the roller positioned centrally above.
It does retain the early features of the direct vision slots on the glacis for the driver and co-driver and the M34 75mm gun mantlet, here fitted with the splash guard for the co-axial .30 cal. I think it has the early three part transmission housing too.
The T48 rubber chevron tracks are also an early feature and probably the ones it was shipped from the States with. In British service these were soon replaced with steel tracks.
So, I would say the photo was taken some time in late 1942 into early '43.

A very interesting shot.

[Owen]

Some lovely photos Kieron.
Thanks for sharing them.

[kfz]

Originally Posted by Bodston

Thanks for sharing Kieron.


The Sherman pictured is an early one, but not one of the very first to arrive in North Africa. This one is a welded hull version probably a diesel engined M4A2 (Sherman III in British parlance), it could however be an M4. Impossible to tell for certain from that angle but not many M4's were delivered to the British. The fact that it is a British vehicle and not an American tank being used for training, can be seen from the unique stowage. The fittings for the sandshields are present as is the framework box for storage of the POW cans on the front fender. It is also possible that the edge of a rear turret storage box can be seen. I'm not sure.
American tanks in the theatre generally remained in their olive drab and were not repainted sand, another British indicator.
It is not one of the very early tanks delivered because it is fitted with the heavy duty bogies, the ones with the trailing return roller rather than the M3 type bogies with the roller positioned centrally above.
It does retain the early features of the direct vision slots on the glacis for the driver and co-driver and the M34 75mm gun mantlet, here fitted with the splash guard for the co-axial .30 cal. I think it has the early three part transmission housing too.
The T48 rubber chevron tracks are also an early feature and probably the ones it was shipped from the States with. In British service these were soon replaced with steel tracks.
So, I would say the photo was taken some time in late 1942 into early '43.

A very interesting shot.

to add to the expert rivit counters assesment...

great to see a pic of a welded hull with so early a vehicle. Seem very pleased (esp the guy on the right) with the HE and AP shot too adding further weight that this is a very early vehicle.

Kev

[Bodston]

Originally Posted by kfz

Seem very pleased (esp the guy on the right) with the HE and AP shot too adding further weight that this is a very early vehicle.

Kev

I thought afterwards that I should have made something of the 2 different rounds that the crew were proudly displaying.
The round on the left is the M48 shell, the standard HE round used in the M3 75mm tank gun throughout the war. The very pointed one on the right is the M61 projectile an APCBC (Armour Piercing Capped Ballistic Cap) round. First introduced in limited quantities in March 1942 and well on stream in early 1943. However this was still an inert round as the base detonator had not yet been developed that would enable this round to explode once inside the tank, as the German equivalent ammunition did.
It must, however, have felt to these men that they had eventually been given the correct tools with which to do the job.
Thanks for the prompt Kev.

[Owen]

Kieron,
I'm now confused, I just looked up 7RTR.
Armour Regiments Page

After Operation Crusader it helped in the lifting of the siege of Tobruk joining 32nd Army Tank Brigade as part of the Tobruk Garrison, but in June 1942 the regiment was lost when Tobruk fell to the Germans......It was then reconstituted by re-designation of 10th Royal Tank Regiment in February 1943, in the UK,

So how can these phots be 7 RTR?