F/m Montgomery's Non-fraternisation Policy Letters

[jamesicus]

For general information - they may have been posted previously:

[Gnomey]

Interesting stuff James. Is there any record of those who did not obey the non-fraternisation rule. From what I have heard and read about none of the frontline soldiers paid it much attention.

[jamesicus]

(Gnomey @ Dec 30 2005, 11:08 PM) [post=43812]Interesting stuff James. Is there any record of those who did not obey the non-fraternisation rule. From what I have heard and read about none of the frontline soldiers paid it much attention.
[/b]

Sorry, Gnomey, I don't know the answer to your question -- I wasn't serving there.

James

[Gnomey]

No problem, I was just wondering. I'm sure someone on here knows the answer or had more of an idea than me of it.

[mattgibbs]

I know someone who's British father served in Germany, his mother is German
Regards
MG

[Harry Ree]

(Gnomey @ Dec 30 2005, 11:08 PM) [post=43812]Interesting stuff James. Is there any record of those who did not obey the non-fraternisation rule. From what I have heard and read about none of the frontline soldiers paid it much attention.
[/b]

[quote]

Apparently it was SHAEF who issued the strict non fraternisation rule..... no contact with Germans except in the line of duty.Any US troops found violating the rule were fined $65 which led to any propositioning of German girls becoming known as "putting the $65 question".Few soldiers heeded the ban despite being told "Do you know that German women have been trained to seduce you".Allied Intelligence at this point were fearful of a Werewolve campaign which had been threatened in the dying throes of the Third Reich.

Allied soldiers saw it differently and stated "copulation without conversion is not fraternisation".Even officers indulged in circumventing the order.A few however had some agreement with the official line and thought that the German joy at their liberation was as ersatz as their coffee.

In the end SHAEF bowed down to reality and rapidly relaxed the non-fraternisation orders and by 1 October 1945,non fraternisation ceased to be an official occcupation policy.Reality, it had to be when it was known that some top brass had high class German mistresses in tow.One high ranking officer in intelligence whose role was to root out dubious politically unwise liaisons was himself found to be deeply involved with the former mistress of Goebbels.He is recorded as taking her to New York on furlough break.

Very good information posted Jam.It would be interesting to hear what the British punishment for fraternisation was.Possibily a charge sheet.

[Kiwiwriter]

The "Werewolves" were a serious fear, because of two reasons...they had already assassinated the pro-Allied mayor of Aachen, and Goebbels had created "Radio Werewolf" to inspire the "Werewolves" into action. In reality, the underground movement and Goebbels' station were not connected.

However, there were incidents until 1948....one of Monty's liaison officers was killed, and cables strung across German roads to decapitate American and British drivers. Allied mechanics installed anti-decapitation crowbars on their jeeps to deal with that.

By 1948, Werewolf incidents had dwindled. I have a book on the subject. Fascinating stuff.

[lancesergeant]

To Kiwiwriter: Apologies from the ranks of the ignorant/ not aware. What were the werewolves, were they an underground resistance movement to the Allies like say the Maquis to the Germans or were they a hard core Nazi group an underground army more of hindrance to stall the Allied advance to allow the evacuation of senior Nazis etc or some other reason.. Many thanks.

[Kiwiwriter]

(lancesergeant @ Jan 22 2006, 07:39 AM) [post=44672]To Kiwiwriter: Apologies from the ranks of the ignorant/ not aware. What were the werewolves, were they an underground resistance movement to the Allies like say the Maquis to the Germans or were they a hard core Nazi group an underground army more of hindrance to stall the Allied advance to allow the evacuation of senior Nazis etc or some other reason.. Many thanks.
[/b]

There were actually two Werewolf organizations. Like so much in the Third Reich, there was little coordination or communication between ministries, which warred like the feudal fiefdoms they were, seeking to "work towards the Fuhrer"and gain his favor as No. 2 in the Reich and his successor.

The primary Werewolf organization was set up by Himmler and his creepy SS, and intencded to be a similar to the Maquis or Tito's guerrillas. Himmler admired Tito immensely. These were supposed to launch the usual guerrilla attacks on the Allies from behind the lines, and their biggest achievements were the killing of the American-installed Mayor of Aachen and one of Field Marshal Montgomery's senior liaison officers. They consisted of fanatical HJ and SS men behind the Allied lines. They ambushed jeeps (usuall with the wire across the road), committed small-scale sabotage, and scrawled graffiti.

The secondary Werewolf organization was set up by Goebbels and his Ministry of Propaganda, apparently with no coordination with the SS, and that was a radio station, designed to encourage Germans to fight agains the Allied invader as guerrillas in the style of the Maquis or Tito's guerrillas. I don't know if Goebbels admired Tito. This radio station was not behind Allied lines, obviously. It started up in early 1945, and shut down by V-E Day. It encouraged guerrilla acts and taunted the Allies with propaganda.

Neither outfit accomplished much. The central weakness was that unlike all the other guerrilla movements of World War II, the Werewolves lacked an outside sponsor to provide weapons, supplies, training, and liberation. The Werewolves would have had to do it all themselves, down to arms fabrication. Given Germany's complete destruction in 1945, and the exposure of its leadership as frauds, sadists, kleptomaniacs, and genocidal killers, there was little popular support for such a guerrilla warfare, and it petered out quickly.

[jimbotosome]

(Harry Ree @ Jan 1 2006, 07:25 AM) [post=43859]

Apparently it was SHAEF who issued the strict non fraternisation rule..... no contact with Germans except in the line of duty.Any US troops found violating the rule were fined $65 which led to any propositioning of German girls becoming known as "putting the $65 question".Few soldiers heeded the ban despite being told "Do you know that German women have been trained to seduce you".Allied Intelligence at this point were fearful of a Werewolve campaign which had been threatened in the dying throes of the Third Reich.

Allied soldiers saw it differently and stated "copulation without conversion is not fraternisation".Even officers indulged in circumventing the order.A few however had some agreement with the official line and thought that the German joy at their liberation was as ersatz as their coffee.

In the end SHAEF bowed down to reality and rapidly relaxed the non-fraternisation orders and by 1 October 1945,non fraternisation ceased to be an official occcupation policy.Reality, it had to be when it was known that some top brass had high class German mistresses in tow.One high ranking officer in intelligence whose role was to root out dubious politically unwise liaisons was himself found to be deeply involved with the former mistress of Goebbels.He is recorded as taking her to New York on furlough break.

Very good information posted Jam.It would be interesting to hear what the British punishment for fraternisation was.Possibily a charge sheet.
[/b]

I agree. Patton claimed it came from SHAEF as well. But he himself thought it to be a stupid rule. He believed it was a hinderence to progress. He also had a different belief on denazifacation too.