What did the waffen ss do? - Page 2

Gnomey · 23-04-2006, 01:24 AM

Welcome to the forum Dave. Don't forget Malmedy Kiwi (I think that was Waffen SS anyway). They were the elite and they did commit a lot of atrocities for which their image is tarnished, they were probably the best troops in the German inventory.

Exxley · 23-04-2006, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnomey

Welcome to the forum Dave. Don't forget Malmedy Kiwi (I think that was Waffen SS anyway). They were the elite and they did commit a lot of atrocities for which their image is tarnished, they were probably the best troops in the German inventory.

A little correction here: some Waffen-SS units were among the best troops in the German inventory, but they were certainly the most "glamorous" ones especially in post-war publications.

spidge · 23-04-2006, 06:38 AM

Welcome David, and good luck with your research.

51highland · 23-04-2006, 07:35 AM

Welcome Dave, one atrocity was committed at Heusden, Holland. 132 women and children were blown up in a building there in 1944. Which prompted a "we didn't give them the option of surrender from that time on" my fathers quote!

51highland · 23-04-2006, 07:36 AM

Forgot to add, a lot of the veterans I have spoken to thought the German para's were as tough if not tougher!!

Owen · 23-04-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51highland

Forgot to add, a lot of the veterans I have spoken to thought the German para's were as tough if not tougher!!

I'd agree, I'd rate the Fallschirmjager above the Waffen-SS.
They show how good German soldiers can be without the "Nazi" element.
Hard, tough but fair fighters.

spidge · 23-04-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmII

See http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres.html
Aye
MalcolmII

A very good sight which I have used before and also highlights an allied massacre that took place in retaliation.

Gotthard Heinrici · 23-04-2006, 11:30 AM

Hello Dave and welcome to the forum. Yes there were certainly Elite Units in the Waffen SS but of the 38 formations only about 8 or 9 truly achieved that status. By all acounts they were tough as nails and were always sent to the most hard-pressed area of the front. Although initially sceptical many wehrmacht units came to respect these units although I have read that there was some jealousy as usually they had first pick on all new equipment. I would agree that the Fallschirmjager (early in the war) were as good if not better. The guys who took Eban-Emael and jumped into Crete were a different breed to the "9th Parachute Army" which fled as soon as the Russians attacked at the Seelow Heights during the Battle of Berlin. Another German formation which were extremely good were the "Grossdeutchsland" Division.

plant-pilot · 23-04-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotthard Heinrici

I would agree that the Fallschirmjager (early in the war) were as good if not better. The guys who took Eban-Emael and jumped into Crete were a different breed to the "9th Parachute Army" which fled as soon as the Russians attacked at the Seelow Heights during the Battle of Berlin. Another German formation which were extremely good were the "Grossdeutchsland" Division.

Good points, well made, but I would again like to point something out. All German units tended to be better in the early years of the war, but this tendency was amplified in the more elite units.

The elite units were, as GH pointed out pushed into the hard fights and, if I can paraphrase the old saying "Only the good die young", in those sorts of situations it is your bravest and best that are usually your casualties.

Later in the war, even elite SS and FJ units were 'padded' out with replacements that were mediocre at best as available recruits became harder to find. A hard core of fine soldiers with plenty of experience padded out with mediocre keen and possibly not too keen wannabes does not make an elite unit.

It is not an accurate comparison, in my opinion, to compare a units achievments in the early years and with the same unit in the later part of the war.

sapper · 23-04-2006, 11:57 AM

Just a word about the Waffen SS. If I captured a German Soldier, a young man like myself. I would light a cigarette, stick in his mouth, hands on head, and send him back on his own. A very happy POW puffing away happily on his cigarette, as he made his way back.

But the SS? Surly, arrogant, and completely untrustworthy. It was rumoured that on several occasions they would raise the white flag of surrender, and when you moved forward to accept their surrender, another would pop up and cut the British down with a burst of machine gun fire.

They certainly murdered our men taken prisoner in cold and calculated way. That was the 12th SS Panzer Hitler Jugend...

They paid a price for it! Let me ask this? Would you take a prisoner knowing what they had done to your own men? Would you really? Nah! Specially as the war in Normandy was bitterly fought, in front of Caen, where we took on the SS Panzers to keep them away from the American front.

The whole area always had the smell of death around, It never went away till we went down to the USA sector near Vire.
SS? Murderers!
Sapper

23-04-2006, 01:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
Gnomey Per Ardua Ad Astra Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 2,960	Welcome to the forum Dave. Don't forget Malmedy Kiwi (I think that was Waffen SS anyway). They were the elite and they did commit a lot of atrocities for which their image is tarnished, they were probably the best troops in the German inventory. __________________ "Never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few" Sir Winston Chuchill, Summer 1940 "To him the people of Britain and the free world owe largely the way of life they enjoy today" Ensciption on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-1940) Statue in London Aircraft of World War 2 Forum - A Warbird Forum

23-04-2006, 06:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
spidge Legendary Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8,046	Welcome David, and good luck with your research. __________________ Spidge, ------------------------------------------------------- My Avatar is the memorial to the 22 Commonwealth Coastwatchers at the Temakin Cemetery on Betio (Tarawa Atoll) who were beheaded by the Japanese on 15th October 1942. http://www.dva.gov.au/media/publicat...mem_beito.html "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war." (Winston Churchill made this prophetic pronouncement in a House of Commons speech in 1938, just after Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich agreement with Hitler. Chamberlain returned from Germany with the signed agreement in hand, proclaiming that "peace in our time" had been achieved. Churchill attacked Chamberlain's "politics of appeasement" in this and many other speeches.) What did the Australians do in ww2 and other conflicts? Check out this site: http://www.diggerhistory.info/00-pag...ster-index.htm

23-04-2006, 07:35 AM	#14 (permalink)
51highland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ipswich Posts: 830	Welcome Dave, one atrocity was committed at Heusden, Holland. 132 women and children were blown up in a building there in 1944. Which prompted a "we didn't give them the option of surrender from that time on" my fathers quote! __________________ 51 highland www.keep-em-moving.com Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean (Friends are good in the day of battle) Na diobair caraid's a charraid (Forsake not a friend in the fray) Cuimhnichibh na suinn nach maireann . Mairidh an cliu beo gu brath. (In memory of the Heroes who are no more. May their Fame live on forever)

23-04-2006, 07:36 AM	#15 (permalink)
51highland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ipswich Posts: 830	Forgot to add, a lot of the veterans I have spoken to thought the German para's were as tough if not tougher!! __________________ 51 highland www.keep-em-moving.com Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean (Friends are good in the day of battle) Na diobair caraid's a charraid (Forsake not a friend in the fray) Cuimhnichibh na suinn nach maireann . Mairidh an cliu beo gu brath. (In memory of the Heroes who are no more. May their Fame live on forever)

23-04-2006, 11:30 AM	#18 (permalink)
Gotthard Heinrici Pog mo thon Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 3,940	Hello Dave and welcome to the forum. Yes there were certainly Elite Units in the Waffen SS but of the 38 formations only about 8 or 9 truly achieved that status. By all acounts they were tough as nails and were always sent to the most hard-pressed area of the front. Although initially sceptical many wehrmacht units came to respect these units although I have read that there was some jealousy as usually they had first pick on all new equipment. I would agree that the Fallschirmjager (early in the war) were as good if not better. The guys who took Eban-Emael and jumped into Crete were a different breed to the "9th Parachute Army" which fled as soon as the Russians attacked at the Seelow Heights during the Battle of Berlin. Another German formation which were extremely good were the "Grossdeutchsland" Division. __________________ *"The Eastern front is like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point all the rest will collapse."* - General Heinz Guderian

23-04-2006, 11:57 AM	#20 (permalink)
sapper WW2 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,513	Just a word about the Waffen SS. If I captured a German Soldier, a young man like myself. I would light a cigarette, stick in his mouth, hands on head, and send him back on his own. A very happy POW puffing away happily on his cigarette, as he made his way back. But the SS? Surly, arrogant, and completely untrustworthy. It was rumoured that on several occasions they would raise the white flag of surrender, and when you moved forward to accept their surrender, another would pop up and cut the British down with a burst of machine gun fire. They certainly murdered our men taken prisoner in cold and calculated way. That was the 12th SS Panzer Hitler Jugend... They paid a price for it! Let me ask this? Would you take a prisoner knowing what they had done to your own men? Would you really? Nah! Specially as the war in Normandy was bitterly fought, in front of Caen, where we took on the SS Panzers to keep them away from the American front. The whole area always had the smell of death around, It never went away till we went down to the USA sector near Vire. SS? Murderers! Sapper

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