Fraternization with the locals.

Owen · 11-09-2007, 11:18 AM

Have our Veterans any good stories about how they and their mates got on with the local populations of the countries they served in?
Any funny stories?
Any sad stories?
Or were you all too busy fighting the war to get chance to meet them ?

Ron Goldstein · 11-09-2007, 12:51 PM

Owen
This memory comes to mind.

Sunday 22nd. October 1944
Through Firenzolia, roads murder as it had rained all night and was still raining. Had to evict eyeties out of house for Major Mouland. Carried set up mountain to try and contact Batteries. Near Div cemetery.

The entry in my diary brings the scene back immediately to mind.
At the time I was still being called upon to act as an unpaid interpreter.
We had arrived at this small farmhouse complex and Major Mouland decided it would do nicely as B.H.Q and sleeping accommodation for himself and the other officers. He told me to explain to the very belligerent looking owner of the property that it was being commandeered by the British Army and that he, the owner, would have to leave forthwith.
I tried to sugar the pill as nicely as I could by explaining to the farmer that he would be re-compensed in due course but that leave he must. The Italian wasn’t having any of this.
“Spara!” he said vehemently, “Shoot me!” ..."Spara! Non posso far'
più!" or, in other words “You can’t do any worse to me!” and he demonstrated this by tearing open the front of his shirt and offering his broad chest to Major Mouland.
The O.C. turned peevishly to me and said “What’s he bloody talking about Goldstein!” I explained what the farmer had said to which Mouland replied, equally vehemently “ I don’t want to shoot the bloody man! ....tell him not to be such a stupid bloody idiot!”.
Somewhere along the way reason must have prevailed and I vaguely remember that the house owner was allowed to stay in his house by keeping two rooms upstairs, from where he was able to keep an eye on his property, while BHQ remained down below.
With reference to my use of the word 'eyeties', this was common parlance in the days in which it was written, were I writing it today I would have used a less offensive word.

There is a final postscript.

As a result of posting this story on the BBC WW2 Archives I was contacted by the late Major Mouland's son who had seen the relevant article.
I was immediately concerned that I might have painted his father as being too brusque and offered to add an addendum or tone down my description.
"Not at all" was the reply, "that's just how he was" and so my description stays as I originally recorded it !

Owen · 11-09-2007, 12:58 PM

Great story, Ron.
Where would have the evicted Italians meant to have gone or didn't the Army care?
Were you greeted as conquering heroes anywhere?

Ron Goldstein · 11-09-2007, 01:04 PM

Short answer ? Hardly likely, anyway this was strictly at local level and the OC would have had powers to take over properties such as the farmhouse.

marcus69x · 11-09-2007, 01:35 PM

Great story Ron. I like the way you say it was being comandeered by the british army. It's a case of 'GET OUT'. But that's got me thinking...

If the guy was allowed to stay in his property aslong as he was out of the way, shouldn't have this been the common practise over the rest of where the war was being fought? Was it really necessary to kick these people out of their homes? Aslong as the army had the room it needed within the property to carry out their necessary tasks, shouldn't the owners have been able to stay aslong as they didn't interfere?

Ron Goldstein · 11-09-2007, 01:59 PM

Owen
I think we both deleted the same post together !

Apropos being treated as conquering heros I can remember only two incidents.

The first was driving through Bari in September '43 shortly after landing in Italy at Reggio di Calabria.
The locals turned out to cheer us through the streets and oranges and grapes were hurled at us, presumably as peace offerings. I remember all too well an orange getting jammed under the clutch pedal of my 15 cwt Bedford Wireless Truck

The second time is noted in my diary:

Friday 14th April 1945
Moved over Santerno. Some M.G. nuisance and one H.E. about twenty yards away. Bags of prisoners. Kiss from Signora. "Liberatoris !". Chasing after Tedeschis with 30 Browning blazing !

The closing stages of the war in Italy was like an episode from The Wizard. As we chased the Germans ever Northward the local civilians greeted us with bottles of Vino and cries of "Liberatoris !" and life was good..... we were glad to be alive and to have survived.... regrettably others were not so lucky and some were killed with only weeks to go before the end of hostilities.

Marcus

The niceties of life were rarely considered at the sharp end and it was rare that the poor civilians were considered as anything else than a hindrance in the war zone.

Hindsight has always been a wondrous thing.

kfz · 11-09-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus69x

Great story Ron. I like the way you say it was being comandeered by the british army. It's a case of 'GET OUT'. But that's got me thinking...

If the guy was allowed to stay in his property aslong as he was out of the way, shouldn't have this been the common practise over the rest of where the war was being fought? Was it really necessary to kick these people out of their homes? Aslong as the army had the room it needed within the property to carry out their necessary tasks, shouldn't the owners have been able to stay aslong as they didn't interfere?

Marcus,
Dont forget BHQ is a nice juicy target, for the civies own protection they should leave.

Kev

marcus69x · 11-09-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfz

Marcus,
Dont forget BHQ is a nice juicy target, for the civies own protection they should leave.

Kev

Aye, I suppose. Never thought of that.

cheers

louisaj · 11-10-2007, 09:16 AM

I found a flyer yesterday amongst my Grandfathers things, inviting people to come and watch a cock-fight. I have attached it but in case it's not clear, this is what it says:

BOUVIGNIES. chez Demoru Gustave
GRAND CONCOURS de COQS
50-150 organise par Les Mousses
au profit des coqueleux mobilises

Dimanche 21 Avril 1940
Tirage au sort 15 h - Mise au parc 15 h 30

On Sunday April 21st at 3.30pm, Will you come and look at the great french cock-fights where you will see the famaus champions of this country.
At Demory house in Bouvignies.
Military price, 5 francs.

Would this have been an invite from the locals or something the military would have set up for themselves?

Can anyone translate the French bits for me, my foreign language skills are sadly rubbish!

51highland · 11-10-2007, 09:39 AM

Surely there were no naughty goings on, after all there was an order to that effect.!!!!!!!

11-09-2007, 11:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 8,692	Fraternization with the locals. Have our Veterans any good stories about how they and their mates got on with the local populations of the countries they served in? Any funny stories? Any sad stories? Or were you all too busy fighting the war to get chance to meet them ?

11-09-2007, 12:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 700	Owen This memory comes to mind. Sunday 22nd. October 1944 Through Firenzolia, roads murder as it had rained all night and was still raining. Had to evict eyeties out of house for Major Mouland. Carried set up mountain to try and contact Batteries. Near Div cemetery. The entry in my diary brings the scene back immediately to mind. At the time I was still being called upon to act as an unpaid interpreter. We had arrived at this small farmhouse complex and Major Mouland decided it would do nicely as B.H.Q and sleeping accommodation for himself and the other officers. He told me to explain to the very belligerent looking owner of the property that it was being commandeered by the British Army and that he, the owner, would have to leave forthwith. I tried to sugar the pill as nicely as I could by explaining to the farmer that he would be re-compensed in due course but that leave he must. The Italian wasn’t having any of this. “Spara!” he said vehemently, “Shoot me!” ..."Spara! Non posso far' più!" or, in other words “You can’t do any worse to me!” and he demonstrated this by tearing open the front of his shirt and offering his broad chest to Major Mouland. The O.C. turned peevishly to me and said “What’s he bloody talking about Goldstein!” I explained what the farmer had said to which Mouland replied, equally vehemently “ I don’t want to shoot the bloody man! ....tell him not to be such a stupid bloody idiot!”. Somewhere along the way reason must have prevailed and I vaguely remember that the house owner was allowed to stay in his house by keeping two rooms upstairs, from where he was able to keep an eye on his property, while BHQ remained down below. With reference to my use of the word 'eyeties', this was common parlance in the days in which it was written, were I writing it today I would have used a less offensive word. There is a final postscript. As a result of posting this story on the BBC WW2 Archives I was contacted by the late Major Mouland's son who had seen the relevant article. I was immediately concerned that I might have painted his father as being too brusque and offered to add an addendum or tone down my description. "Not at all" was the reply, "that's just how he was" and so my description stays as I originally recorded it ! __________________ If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel circa 30 BCE I was "Called-up" in Oct 1942 Served as a Wireless-Op with the 49th LAA (78 Div) from Apr 1943 to Dec 1944 (North Africa,Sicily,Italy, Egypt). The Regiment was disbanded in Dec 1944 and I was retrained (in Italy) by the Royal Armoured Corps. Served as a Loader-Op with the 4th QOH from Mar 1945 to Jan 1946 (Italy, Austria, Germany) Finished up as Tech Cpl for "A" Sqdrn. I was "De-mobbed" in Apr 1947

11-09-2007, 01:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 700	Short answer ? Hardly likely, anyway this was strictly at local level and the OC would have had powers to take over properties such as the farmhouse. __________________ If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel circa 30 BCE I was "Called-up" in Oct 1942 Served as a Wireless-Op with the 49th LAA (78 Div) from Apr 1943 to Dec 1944 (North Africa,Sicily,Italy, Egypt). The Regiment was disbanded in Dec 1944 and I was retrained (in Italy) by the Royal Armoured Corps. Served as a Loader-Op with the 4th QOH from Mar 1945 to Jan 1946 (Italy, Austria, Germany) Finished up as Tech Cpl for "A" Sqdrn. I was "De-mobbed" in Apr 1947

11-09-2007, 01:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 700	Owen I think we both deleted the same post together ! Apropos being treated as conquering heros I can remember only two incidents. The first was driving through Bari in September '43 shortly after landing in Italy at Reggio di Calabria. The locals turned out to cheer us through the streets and oranges and grapes were hurled at us, presumably as peace offerings. I remember all too well an orange getting jammed under the clutch pedal of my 15 cwt Bedford Wireless Truck The second time is noted in my diary: Friday 14th April 1945 Moved over Santerno. Some M.G. nuisance and one H.E. about twenty yards away. Bags of prisoners. Kiss from Signora. "Liberatoris !". Chasing after Tedeschis with 30 Browning blazing ! The closing stages of the war in Italy was like an episode from The Wizard. As we chased the Germans ever Northward the local civilians greeted us with bottles of Vino and cries of "Liberatoris !" and life was good..... we were glad to be alive and to have survived.... regrettably others were not so lucky and some were killed with only weeks to go before the end of hostilities. Marcus The niceties of life were rarely considered at the sharp end and it was rare that the poor civilians were considered as anything else than a hindrance in the war zone. Hindsight has always been a wondrous thing. __________________ If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel circa 30 BCE I was "Called-up" in Oct 1942 Served as a Wireless-Op with the 49th LAA (78 Div) from Apr 1943 to Dec 1944 (North Africa,Sicily,Italy, Egypt). The Regiment was disbanded in Dec 1944 and I was retrained (in Italy) by the Royal Armoured Corps. Served as a Loader-Op with the 4th QOH from Mar 1945 to Jan 1946 (Italy, Austria, Germany) Finished up as Tech Cpl for "A" Sqdrn. I was "De-mobbed" in Apr 1947 Last edited by Ron Goldstein; 11-09-2007 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Typo

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11-09-2007, 12:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Owen Top Moose Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Under the stairs Posts: 8,692	Great story, Ron. Where would have the evicted Italians meant to have gone or didn't the Army care? Were you greeted as conquering heroes anywhere?

11-09-2007, 01:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
marcus69x I love WW2 meah!!! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Middlesbrough, UK Posts: 1,362	Great story Ron. I like the way you say it was being comandeered by the british army. It's a case of 'GET OUT'. But that's got me thinking... If the guy was allowed to stay in his property aslong as he was out of the way, shouldn't have this been the common practise over the rest of where the war was being fought? Was it really necessary to kick these people out of their homes? Aslong as the army had the room it needed within the property to carry out their necessary tasks, shouldn't the owners have been able to stay aslong as they didn't interfere?

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