Transcript of Journal - Belgium/France May 1940

[louisaj]

Owen... once again thanks for the info and links.

Yes, the orders are entitled 22nd Dragoons.

see attachments - scans of the orders.

[louisaj]

Just looking at the link regarding the locations of the 22nd Dragoons, one of them states Whitby. That's where my nan went to live sometime in 1940 so that makes sense as to why. The pieces are all coming together

[Owen]

I see on the 9th April 1943 one he gets two mentions, one for birth of his daughter and another saying "Posted from RAC "Y" list on 8.4.43."
Which confuses me as he was already with the unit but gets posted to it again. (?)


RAC is Royal Armoured Corps but what was the "Y" list?

Also I thought I knew most British Army ranks but I'm lost with WS/Sgt and WS/Cpl.


Louisa the reference to HQ = HQ Squadron of his Regt, the 22 Dgns.

[Capt.Sensible]

Also I thought I knew most British Army ranks but I'm lost with WS/Sgt and WS/Cpl.

I'm not 100% sure but WS might mean War Service, ie conscript not regular army.

H

[Harry Ree]

Thanks Loiusa for allowing the journal to be posted and to Owen for his involvement.

I always find it interesting to revisit by map or location where the BEF served and their rearguard action back to the Dunkirk perimeter.Recently, I was at Cassel which was one of the rearguard lines to Dunkirk.Not many on the road to the west now in the present era but this now minor road (now bypassed by the A25) must have been packed with the BEF, French Armies and civilians pulling back to the perimeter and under continual attack by the Blitzkrieg.

Similar interesting accounts are recorded by Army and RAF units heading south west to Cherbourg and St Nazaire.I know of one RAF bod who came out of France at Point de Grave on the Gironde, well after the fall of Dunkirk.

Indeed a monumental era for the BEF against what was thought at the time, a formidable enemy.

[Slipdigit]

Louisa, thanks for posting the diaries and orders, I've enjoyed reading them.

[Rich Payne]

Louisa, I don't think that you're boring any of us. This is what we do for fun (in between other things, of course !) I find this sort of historical detective work fascinating.

My guess regarding the photograph, based on the 'Promenade Percy' haircuts is that it was taken rather earlier during his first period of Regular Service. He signed on in 1930 and I think at that time that it would have been for seven years with the colours. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong) followed by a period in the Reserve which is why he was called up so quickly at the start of hostilities.

WS would mean 'War Substantive' - It meant that the rank wouldn't count after the end of the emergency and I believe wouldn't count towards any Army pension either. The grateful country was already planning how it would minimise future expenditure

As Harry says, the short 1940 campaign has left little visible effect on France and Flanders but it was extremely intense. The scale of the movements over such a short period make it difficult to follow but there are evocative place names enough.

[Owen]

I too did wonder if it was War Service but Rich is right.
I also asked Ron Goldstein and here is his reply.

I quote from my own Army Record:

Granted WS rank of Corporal wed 18/10/46 having held the Paid Acting Rank for 90 days.

I've always understood that the use of a War Substantive rank denoted the lowest rank to which one could be relegated to Post War.
This was more important to Commissioned Ranks such as a Major who's post war rank might be downgraded to Captain at the whims of the War Office,

So what was the "Y" list?

[Rich Payne]

I've just Googled War Substantive and have found this useful page :-

Ranks and Appointments of the Land Forces of the British Empire and Commonwealth

[turenne]

Originally Posted by Owen

I've printed this off, Louisa but as Rich says, can we have some more info on Grandad as I'll keep this with my 1940 books.

I can't find 2/Lt D.G. Atkinson on CWGC so I'm assuming he became a POW?

Actually Denis Cary Atkinson (1916 - 1985), POW No 1040. Was transferred in 1941 to Posen (Stalag XXID), so had probably already been a POW in Laufen (Oflag VIIC). Ends up in Eichstätt (Oflag VIIB ).