Evaluating War Experience

[MLW]

All:
I found an interesting Foreign Military Study titled “Evaluating Military Experience.” It is posted to the bottom of the front page of my website. After a week or so, I will move it to the page titled “Research Tools.” As a veteran of the Army, it explains what most veterans know – namely, just because you were there does not mean you are an expert.
Cheers,
Marc
www.maginotlineatwar.com

[Ron Goldstein]

Marc

Thanks for the most interesting link to “Evaluating Military Experience.”

I concur entirely with your statement "just because you were there does not mean you are an expert" with just one reservation.

To take my own wartime experiences as an example.

During all of the time that I spent actually "in the line" I was a wireless operator and so I would consider that in areas dealing with the subject of wireless communications I could safely be considered an "expert". The proviso (and there is always a proviso) would have to be that questions were not about to be asked about the internal structure of the 19 set because then you would require another type of expert, probably someone from the Royal Corps of signals ?
Wireless Set No 19

So.... I consider myself an expert in what life was like for a young man thrown into a desperate situation for which he had no previous experience to guide him.

Ask me as many questions as you like about those areas and I will answer 100% truthfully according to my memory of those times.

I hope that's enough to make me an expert

Ron

[Bodston]

Apologies for hijacking this thread but i've been meaning to ask Ron a question for a while now.
Ron, I have read quite a lot about tanks in action and there is a recurrant theme about the wireless communication.
It is to do with maintaining the Number 19 set 'on net'. I presume this is to do with having all of the transcievers in the squadron vehicles on the same correct frequency?
How easy was this to achieve and maintain? Did it involve constant or periodic test transmissions?
How well did the radio communcation as a whole operate?

Thanks for letting me butt in.
Bod

[Ron Goldstein]

Bodston

Hooray !

I am an "Expert"

The one consistent factor during my service at home and overseas was the way we kept our No.19 wireless sets "on net".
First thing in the morning (and thereafter whenever radio conditions varied because of the locality) the wireless set belonging to "Sunray" (the commander) would begin his transmission with " All stations net now" and press the aptly named Pressel switch on his Mike.
On this command we would loosen the screws that were locking our dials into place and rotate the screws either right or left to try and get the signal that Sunray was sending out into a "trough", i..e. the lowest point at which the incoming wave was being received.
We would then re-lock the screws.
Sunray would then go through all the sub-stations in turn asking: "Charley 1, report my signals"
Charlie 1 would then reply "Charley 1, Strength 5" (on a scale of 1 to 5) and so on until all the substations had benn "netted in" at their maximum strength.
I see that I wrote a small piece about the 19 set on the BBC Archives:
BBC - WW2 People's War - A Driver/Op in Light Ack Ack
The set shown in the pic is missing the Variometer that used to sit on top of the set and I now recall that when we were "netting in" our right hand was tuning the Variometer while our left hand was adjusting the tuning dials.

More details should you require them and apologies to Marc if we've strayed off thread

Ron

ps
Some time ago I joined an online group of 19 set enthusiasts. If you wish to know any technical stuff, that's where you need to go
19set : The ORIGINAL Wireless Set No. 19 Group

[MLW]

Ron: I do not mean to put anyone, especially veterans, on the defensive. But, we must consider what constitutes an expert. I was really thinking of today’s TV pundits and so called military experts who pontificate on areas of which they have no direct knowledge. Yet, they are accepted as experts by the public. This is exemplified by media coverage of US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. For example, when can an Air Force general officer credibly comment on tactical ground operations, or a post-service Army captain tell us about the success of operational-level warfare. This overstating of credentials unfortunately also creeps into some histories of WWII, where we inadvertently, or mistakenly, extrapolate anecdotes into broad ranging truths and lessons of the war.

Bod: No problem on hijacking the thread. Like history, it is the property of everyone. Let’s take it where it needs to go to be of some use to someone.

Cheers,
Marc

[Owen]

Reading that article could it be said that the old saying is true?
"You only learn from your own mistakes."

The other point is "just because you were there doesn't mean you know what was going on."
I mean the Veteran may know what's going on in their own locatilty but as for knowing the bigger picture, that comes after the war when the Veteran can read the history books.
Also a Veteran may have a long service throughout the war in his arm of service but that doesn't mean they know what the war for another army of service was like.
ie, Would a sapper, tankie, driver, gunner, pilot etc know what an infantryman's war was like?
As in bayoneting someone, lobbing a grenade into a weapon pit etc etc

This isn't a dig at any of "our" Veterans so feel free to shoot me down, as I've never been to war , thankfully.

[Ron Goldstein]

Owen

You say "I mean the Veteran may know what's going on in their own locatilty but as for knowing the bigger picture, that comes after the war when the Veteran can read the history books."

We've been here before mate and I think I have already ceded this point

I remember something I said to Brian (Sapper) on this site, back in July last year, which went as follows:

"But, and this is a big "but", we were both rankers and fairly low in the "need to know" basis at the time our battles were fought.
I don't know about you but in all my time overseas I went where I was sent, suffered, un-complainingly (well, almost) the indignities and dangers of front-line conditions, found myself living very much on a day-to-day basis but was rarely au fait with the "big picture".
In truth, I have learnt more about the battles in which I was involved in the Post War period than I ever knew at the time in which they actually took place, particularly the struggle for Monte Cassino.
The vast majority of the good people who suscribe to this site have had the benefit of over sixty years of research and although they may not have had the first hand experiences that you and I have "enjoyed" they will all have made and are entitled to their own opinions "

On your second point " Would a sapper, tankie, driver, gunner, pilot etc know what an infantryman's war was like?" you are on much safer ground and I must agree with you 100%.


I have learnt so much about WW2 since those frenetic days, particulary from other vets

Cheers

Ron





.

[sapper]

As usual Ron, I agree with you.
But on a "overall " view, I would add this. In the Field Companies RE. Let me rephrase that... (In our field Companies RE) We had a great deal to do with the infantry. Very often a few Sappers would go out on fighting or reconnaissance patrols with the infantry.

Sometimes when trying to lift a minefield under the enemies range, and sometimes Sight, we would have Infantry support. Other times we would be out in front of everyone.... at night doing our stuff.

At times we went out as infantry on to the flat wet lands in Holland and spent days out there all on our own.

The sappers earned a great reputation, by never refusing a task, no matter how dangerous (Or boring)
We perfected the mine laying and lifting at night. out in front of the leading infantry to a fine art. The late Captain Edwards RE. wrote, that he was always surprised that the sappers could lay a mine field under the noses of the enemy, and never make a sound, Not only lay the field but to record where the mines were laid.

The other thing was this. Seldom did the company ever get together as a complete unit. There were always two or three out assisting other units, Assaults, bridging, mine laying and lifting Clearing a way for our own men,,The list was endless.

For example ...I got to Tilly. That was miles away from our theatre of operations, Shame is: I cannot recall, why we were there???

Of course all this sounds a bit fanciful.. Its not, it is a plain, stark unvarnished statement of fact.,What is more, it is pretty much the everyday life of a Sapper in a RE Field Company.
Sapper

[4th wilts]

my old mate told me he didnt know where he was,most of the time.lee.

[Bodston]

Originally Posted by Ron Goldstein

Hooray !

I am an "Expert"

Thanks Ron (and Marc.)
Just what I was after, excellent links too. Ta.